How hard is it to find a boat in the ocean

If someone is lost in the ocean in a lifeboat and has no signaling devices, how hard is it to find them? I assume you would know weather conditions, so you’ve have a rough idea where they are based on where they left, the currents, etc. Do sonar and marine radar work for this kind of issue? What about satellite imagery? Are there other tools that are effective to find the liferaft, assuming the boat has no signaling devices?

What if you are just told ‘there is a small boat somewhere in one of the oceans on earth, go find it’. How hard is that going to be?

Unless you have extremely good coordinates on where to start, and start soon - almost impossible.

Here’s one story.

Its off topic but thanks for that. I saw that guy’s story on I shouldn’t be alive and thought it was one of the best episodes. I would really like to read his biography about it.

His story happened 32 years ago however. I would assume technology to find a boat would be better. Plus was anyone looking for him?

I am confident that I could find a small boat in the ocean, starting from the chair I’m currently sitting in, in either 6 minutes (if you count San Francisco Bay as part of the ocean) or about 35 if you don’t.

Finding a specific small boat would be essentially impossible in a random location. Especially if there’s no guarantee that the boat is immobilized and could therefore have moved to places already examined.

Yeah, you gotta remember the ocean is mind bogglingly huge. The Pacific is over 63 MILLION square miles. Just let that sink in for a bit.
Hell lake Michigan is just over 22 thousand square miles and boats get lost in it.

This guy went missing in 2007:

the coast guard, NASA, Sergey Brin, and Bill Gates all were involved in an attempt to find him. To my knowledge - it was the first very significant crowdsourcing effort to find a guy on a boat - and remains the largest effort to date.

He was declared dead in 2012 - and to the best of my memory - and scanning the article - we don’t know what happened.

Correct. He was never found, alas: Jim Gray (computer scientist) - Wikipedia

Very difficult even today. The *Nina *was lost earlier this year between Australia and New Zealand..

No trace has been found depite the Nina being in satellite phone contact prior to going missing ina fairly well defined location.

Well, if they sink before you get there…

Weren’t doves or pidgins used for a while because of their eyesight? ( tested or something. )

I would think that a 50-100’ boat would be much easier than a 10’ grey rubber boat with a person laying in the bottom.

I think the NINA went down before anyone got to the area.

Quite possibly. I think it was about 3 weeks after her last contact that the search was started. And that shows the awesomeness of trying to find the wreckage of a 70 foot yacht.

We were told they were doing tests with pigeons. They were in sort of an upside down clear dome mounted under the aircraft and had buttons they could peck for left, straight, or right.

As for the OP, many ships, commercial and military, have a little bronze plaque mounted on a bulkhead somewhere on the bridge. The plaque has this prayer on it:

It’s not easy finding a boat lost at sea.

Ex maritime search radar operator and pilot here.

Our airborne search radar was pretty much limited only by the radar horizon and the time between radar pulses (referred to as pulses per second - PPS) in terms of range for large boats such as bulk carriers, container ships etc. The radar horizon is just the horizon visible to the radar and is limited by the aircraft height and the curvature of the earth. The time between radar pulses limits range because the radar has to listen for a return pulse before it sends the next pulse. therefore the longer the time between pulses, the farther a pulse can travel out and back and still be recognised as a return by the radar. Of the two limitations, the radar horizon was normally most limiting (PPS was automatically adjusted so that it wouldn’t be limiting.)

Radar horizon in nautical miles is given, approximately, by 1.23 * SQRT aircraft height in feet. So for a typical search altitude of 1500’ a range of a bit under 50 NM was achievable for a large boat.

When searching for smaller objects though there are a heap of variations that come in to play.

Things are easier to detect when the sea state is calm, when the aircraft altitude is low with the radar beam radiating closer to parallel with the sea surface, and when the object has ample reflective surfaces, right angles, and is presenting its broadside to the radar beam.

On a calm day we could pick up 10 foot wooden fishing boats with no superstructure or mast, whales, logs, dolphins, fish boils, mooring buoys and other similar bits of crap out to about 30 nautical miles.

On a day with winds above 5-10 knots or so, the smaller items such as logs and buoys would disappear, only large pods of dolphins would show up and whales would only show if they had their tail sticking out of the water. Small wooden boats would be detectable but a lot depends on their aspect. You might still see them out to 30 NM if they are beam on but you might not see them till 15-20 NM if they are bow or stern on to you.

With winds above 15-20 knots finding small things such as low streamlined wooden boats becomes very difficult.

It’s worth noting that when detecting a wooden boat, it’s not so much the wooden surface that is reflecting the radar pulse, but rather the nicely curved surface of water against the hull on the opposite side of the boat. For this reason a traditional boat with a hull that penetrates the water may show up a lot easier than an inflatable raft that sits on top of the water.

My guess for detecting an inflatable raft on a nice day would be at around 15-20 NM. With that in mind I’d set up a search pattern with legs about 25-30 NM apart to allow for some overlap. The aircraft is then effectively covering about 25 NM at any one time and travelling at 200 knots you’d be covering about 5000 square nautical miles an hour. Our aircraft could comfortably fly for 7 hours, call it 5.5 hours of search time allowing for a transit to and from the search area. So, ideally, you might be able to cover 27500 nautical miles of ocean in a single flight.

You can see then that you only need a very approximate starting point in order to know you are able to fly over the appropriate piece of ocean. Unfortunately the chances of actually finding what you are looking for all depends on the weather conditions. If the sea state is up at all then you might have to bring your track spacing right down to a few miles, and even then you might not have any confidence in detection.

Every time I was tasked with finding something specific, it was found within minutes of getting to the search area, but I’ve never been tasked with finding an inflatable raft!

In the case of boats lost in the sourthern ocean it’s quite likely that you couldn’t get a suitable search aircraft to the area anyway.

Yes, but it’s based on the boat. If the boat has no way to emit signals, it’s as likely to be found by someone who is not looking for it as by someone who is: there’s been quite a few cases of windsurfers or people on paddlers being lost off a beach and rescued by a trawler which happened to spot them, usually before anybody had realized anything was amiss. The coast guards of every country on the European side of the Mediterranean comb its waters constantly in search of, among other things, zodiacs full of imigrants; they often find one, but for every time you hear that they intercepted one at sea you have another time that one washed up to a beach full of people so dehydrated that they were unable to get any kind of bearings or walk away. And what the immigrants are betting on is on being part of those others which manage to land succesfully and without going straight into the nearest hospital.

Could a Russian Ocean Recon Satellite detect a boat… I am guessing not, or it would be lost in the background clutter.

32 years? Yes, the technology got better just a year later. Although strictly speaking, I guess EPIRB’s aren’t a technology for finding boats so much as they a technology for a distressed boat to let everyone know exactly where it is.

The Cosmos RORSATs are no longer in service, per this cite and others. Their reactors are still up there (even Cosmos 1900, for the time being) but the satellites are no longer operational. The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998, at page 17, mentions that Russia has transitioned to EORSATs, which rely instead on intercepting radar and other electronic emissions from its targets. Surprising that they didn’t keep up with the RORSAT program. I don’t have a resolution figure for the RORSAT, but the Russian civilian program they tried in the late 80s early 90s had a stated resolution of 25 meters, with an improved, unflown version that got it down to 5-7 meters. Of course, it didn’t have a nuclear reactor driving the transmitter.

Nowadays, there are things like Radarsat-1 and -2. They’ve resolutions from 10m down to 1m. So, I’m guessing a “Yes” on finding the yacht, but maybe “No” on a life raft or individual swimmer.

Re, the Southern Ocean and difficulty in finding derelict ships, the Vendee Globe racing yacht Groupe LG 2 went missing for six months in 1997, before washing up on the shores of Chile, roughly 1700 nautical miles from his last known position. This despite a lengthy air and sea search to find the yacht and its pilot, competitive yachtsman Gerry Roufs. He’s never been found. The hulk was about 18 m long by 6m across, incidentally.

Being able to see the boat and being able to find the boat would be pretty different things. Any boat in the ocean is probably seen by some satellite with regularity. A searcher being able to get a satellite to tell you it has seen a specific boat somewhere in the world will be significantly harder.

JFK, who loved the sea, had a plaque with that phrase in the Oval Office. It was a gift from Adm. Rickover.

Slightly off topic but curious to find out: what kind of technology would one use to find a boat that didn’t want to be found? Could one lock in on their GPS system?

You use airborne search radar as mentioned in my previous post. That, along with FLIR, allows you to detect and track a target without them ever knowing you are there.