Also in a plane if you suddenly have to use the bathroom or get sick, oh well. No such thing as pulling over. (Although there was the scene in “Cannonball Run” where they are flying in a plane, run out of beer, and drop down to make a stop at a 7-11, then turn right around and take off again using no more than maybe 50 feet of road as a runway which in the narration they said the pilot actually did.)
We do a thing called “Challenge Air” where private pilots take handicapped kids up in their planes so they have dozens of planes flying in and out constantly and that takes alot of coordination with ground and flight crews.
I have a fair bit of instructor time, and I’d say it’s not “hard” in the absolute sense. Most students find it fun, but challenging. Everybody has something that that is troublesome, and it’s usually temporary.
Taxiing the first time always feels weird because the technique runs counter to a lifetime of driving reflexes. Sometimes the ground school material gives people trouble if they haven’t had to learn in a classroom / academic setting for a while.
In the end, most people who apply themselves and really want it will do fine.
It’s amazing how much you can learn if you have an interest in it. There is a hell of a lot that is covered for PPL, that is for sure, and remember that this is just for VFR (Visual Flight Rules). You need a minimum of 40 hours training, as well as ground school. My instructor did most of my ground school while up in the air. It was great. Even on the first day, I thought, we’d spend hours on the ground before we ever got the first flight in. Nosirrree, that wasn’t his style, he asked me if I knew what the controls did, and I said I did a lot of reading on what they were supposed to do, but never have flown ever. He said, great, let’s go now, we can work on some of the ground school up there. Aw, fun times man! However, you can get your LSA (light sport aviation) license with as little as 20 hours, and has lots of other stuff going for it. Or if you fly ultralights, no license required, but training is highly recommended.
I’ve taken dozens up in my experimental plane, and all were flying it immediately, even without knowing fully what the controls were doing just yet. I basically tell them to hold on to the stick and put your feet on the pedals, and for now, don’t do anything, just rest your hand and feet on them. I then start explaining that you want to do gentle movements, and it just doesn’t take no time, before they fully understand how to control the plane. It’ll take more hours of course, to get better at it, but it all starts to come naturally after a while.
Take off is a bit more difficult, especially when you have crosswinds with gusts, and a taildragger is slightly more challenging as well, but what I prefer to fly. There is one friend I had that had never flown, that took off without me helping him on any of the controls whatsoever, and did it the first time. I was puzzled, and asked him a bit more. He insisted he never flown, but that he had flown a lot of remote control airplanes and that he knew what the controls were supposed to do.
One thing that will take the longest to learn is the landing. My first landing without any help, was on my 7th flight. My first solo was on my 11th. Ever heard of the Barefoot Bandit? Ask him about the landings. Here’s a guy that taught himself how to fly by flying one of those video games. He stole something like seven planes or so, not sure how many, and was able to take every single one of them off. Landing, OTOH, he wasn’t so successful, he crashed every single one of them.
Navigation has never been easier with GPS. You simply follow a straight line on a screen. You always know where you are at. GPS is one of the reasons I got back into flying after a long absence. Long gone are having to fight those huge paper maps, but you still keep them for back up. Quite a few smaller planes have automatic pilots now too.
To elaborate more on (1.), some 25 years ago when I took my private pilot’s license (PPL) exam, there were 50 or 60 questions on it. I missed one. But I knew what questions were going to be asked before the test. They give you a book that had some 600 questions complete with all of the answers! If you’d been paying any attention at all during flight training, you easily already knew a good 60-80% of it, so all that was left, was to memorize the rest. I remember the last week of final test day, I spent about 2-3 days going back and forth over the questions until I had the rest all memorized, even if there were a few I didn’t completely understand, I still knew the answer. I remember also taking just the questions I missed, and repeatedly going back over them until I was getting all of them right. Then I followed it up one more time with all 600 questions again. Some of the questions maybe were helicopter related, it’s been too long, but those you could skip entirely because they weren’t going to be a part of your PPL test.
Nowadays, I think they still give you all of the questions and correct answers, but I believe it’s up to around 900 questions now. Others can elaborate or correct me on this.
I fly experimentals these days, they have so much more going for them as do LSA and ultralights. If you’re wanting to fly for the pure joy and leisure of it all, without it being a financial burden for you then select one of those categories. And don’t let the word experimental scare you. There are now more experimentals registered than certified planes with Van’s aircraft making up about 25% of the experimental market. Although most still go with the same engines that are in certified aircraft, when it falls under experimental, you are far more flexible. I can go just under 200 mph in my RV-6 and get better gas mileage than what I get on my Ford Ranger pickup.
The choice of coursework, aircraft type and instructors make a difference in how easy it is to learn. I used a college course for the bookwork with an instructor who knew what he was teaching and it went smoothly to completion of the FAA exam. I used Cessna 152’s, 172’s and a Piper Cherokee for instruction. I used the electronic version of the E6B computer that self prompted for the correct format when needed (statute versus nautical). It made a big difference on the test compared to other calculators at the time. I think the Sporty’s version is probably the standard today.
Contrast this to a friend of mine who went with a Piper Cub and very poor course instruction. It was a disaster. The person teaching the class work was just playing videos and asking if anyone had a question. The Cub is not the easiest plane to learn in because of weight and balance issues. The fuel tank is located in the front of the plane which means a single pilot has to fly from the back seat. That means the student flies from the back seat which makes it hard to see the gauges. If you can’t see the gauges then it’s hard to set up a stabilized approach. It’s also a tail dragger which is less forgiving. Flying a tail dragger is thought to make a better pilot in the long run. But IMO it’s harder on the student in the short term and unless someone is going to actually fly a tail dragger it’s a waste of time. In my case I have a partnership in a plane that is extremely easy to fly and will probably never fly a tail dragger.
The other thing that made learning hard for my friend in the beginning was a lack of an intercom system. When I was learning I bought a portable com system so the instructor and I could communicate without shouting. Small planes are very noisy.
BTW, the airplane in The Cannonball Run was a Maule M5-235 Lunar Rocket. Maules are already known for their STOL capabilities. The Lunar Rocket had larger tail surfaces and larger flaps, so it was even better at it than the M4. The 235 hp engine also helped it get up in the air quickly.
When I got my license in the mid-'80s, there were 70 questions. I don’t know how many questions are in the study guide.
The problem with Experimentals is you have to build them. I’d love to have a Van’s, but there’s absolutely no time to build one. Or you could buy a used one. Either way, it’s going to be a lot more expensive than buying a used pre-hiatus Skyhawk; and if you buy one already built, don’t you lose the ability to work on it yourself (i.e. you can’t get a Repairman’s Certificate for it)?
I took ground school at a community college. The instructor, a/the Dean, used to be in the FAA. Best fifty bucks I ever spent! I have a Sporty’s electronic E6B around here somewhere, which I bought in the '90s. Runs through batteries quickly. Never got the hang of the electronic version. I’ve been thinking of getting out one of the ‘whiz wheels’ (‘one of’, because those things tend to multiply when you aren’t looking) and brush up on calculations.
Once, I hadn’t flown in about a year and I went up with an instructor in a Schweizer 300. He said, ‘You learned in an R22, didn’t you.’ I told him I did, and asked how he knew. He said that I was ahead of the aircraft; and that the R22 is so sensitive and not very powerful, that you have to keep ahead of it. There’s a saying, ‘If you can fly an R22, you can fly anything.’ For helicopters anyway, learning in a more challenging aircraft develops good habits.
When I learned to fly (airplanes), we didn’t have intercom. We didn’t have to shout at each other, but we were definitely using our ‘outside voices’. And we had to crank up the volume on the overhead speaker to hear the radio.
It’s actually called a Sport Pilot Certificate in the US.
I should caution people that while you’ll often see a phrase like “as little as 20 hours!” almost no one actually completes it in the minimum time. It’s possible, just not likely. A good rule of thumb is to budget for 1.5 to 2 times the minimum time and cost requirements. If you do finish sooner, great, you have money and time to do more flying. If you don’t, you won’t have interruptions in training that will delay you further and cost you more.
While there are a lot of good things about Sport Pilot is does limit the size, capacity, and capabilities of what you can fly. That’s not always a problem - a lot of my flying under my Private certificate could have been done with Sport - just be aware of it. Time in Sport does count towards a Private down the line, so it can make a fine intermediate goal.
No, you don’t.
Only the original builder gets the Repairman’s Certificate. Again, this is not insurmountable. I have several friends who purchased used kit planes and have regular A&P mechanics work on them. Not all A&P’s are willing to work on kits or experimentals so you might want to have a willing one lined up prior to your purchase.
I’ve flown an airplane so noisy we were restricted to hand signals. I don’t recommend it. Among other things, it’s hard on your hearing, which eventually makes you hard of hearing. Yuck. Modern intercoms, headsets, and so forth are a blessing.
Yes, I said you could buy one someone else already built. The point I was addressing was the ‘without it being a financial burden’ one. If you’re going to an A&P, then you’re not saving anything over a certified airplane. I’d forgotten than not all A&Ps will work on experimentals.
FWIW, I looked up Van’s for sale. Prices run from $29,000 for a 1985 RV-3 to $239,900 for a 2005 RV-10A (trike). RV-6s (razncain’s ride) are a 2012 (kit bought in 1997) RV-6A for $49,000, a 1995 RV-6A for $64,000, and a 2008 RV-6 for $89,000. A 2000 RV-6A is on eBay right now at $28,100 and reserve not met. A 350 hp RV-7A is currently at $40,100, and a partially-completed RV-10 has a buy-it-now price of $55,000. A new kit lists for $44,530, and the quick-build kit lists for $57,630.
WHAT?
Seriously, though. Headsets and intercoms are great. I wouldn’t fly without a headset unless I had to.
the landing technique is different enough between a tail dragger and a tricycle gear that IMO it’s a waste of time to learn in a tail dragger. The vast majority of planes are side-by-side trikes with yokes. The extra time invested in a tail dragger could be used to push the limits in a trike. I routinely take on crosswinds I wouldn’t dream of doing in a tail dragger. I go out of my way to fly on windy days just for the fun of it. I’ve watched enough tail draggers land at Oshkosh to know how little it takes to ground loop one.
When I get a couple more nickles to spend I’m going to invest it in flying in the right seat. My right hand literally doesn’t know what the left hand is doing. My brain is yelling all kind of instructions and it’s out in left field looking at dandelions.
No I think you have a valid point. In my friend’s case everything was much harder than it needed to be and great frustration ensued. Wrong plane, wrong flight class, no intercom in a tandem seat plane. A lot of money was poured down a rabbit hole and funds were limited to start with. It really set this person back.
Was wondering when you were going to show up, LA. I actually got to a aviation thread before you this time.
I didn’t build mine, as you know, but you can still do a lot of this stuff yourself, you just can’t do your own CI’s unless you built it yourself, but they are often much cheaper than certified aircraft if you have to have them done. Mine have been running about $225-$325 a year, if I choose to strip it all down, and get it ready for the A&P to come in and do what it is he does. If you are not sure how to do something, there are quite a few A&P’s that will let you do any repair work required, while they oversee it.
Here is a good example of why I’ll never go back to certified AC ever again, but I can give many. My friend has access to an oil man’s 1999 Cessna 182. Annuals typically run $14-16K! And this is a low time 182 with only 700 TTSNAF&E. This year he moved his plane to another airport, and so had another A&P do the annual on it. Cost was about $12K, and he really did a great job on it, I am told, fixed a lot of stuff that the other A&P’s continued to neglect. The next day though, my friend gets a call from his new A&P and says, this is the hardest phone call I’ve ever made to a customer. I’m afraid you’ve been flying illegal all of these years, and I’m going to have to ground your plane. He found two AD’s that weren’t complied with, one was the crankshaft replacement, and the other the seat track. Had the other A&P’s had been paying attention to the AD’s, they could have had the crankshaft for free for a number of years, plus Lycoming would have reimbursed them for quite a few man hours. Ain’t happening now. He’s got to cough up $21k just for the crankshaft, and figure another buttload for labor. The seat track was minor only 3k for that part, but still a lot of dam money for something that is so damn simple. Only reply the shop in Abilene, TX that was responsible for neglecting these important AD’s was that there is nothing they can do about it. So now lawyers are going to get involved, meanwhile a $200,000 plane that is grounded and ain’t going to be flying for quite some time, all the while eating up hangar rent. Also, had their been an engine failure or mishap, the insurance company wouldn’t have been responsible for it due to its illegal status. So all those years he had been paying insurance was also for nought.
Of course, experimentals have to go through some AD’s as well on certain aspects the way I understand it, but we have far more options, and are never at the mercy of generally just one manufacturer setting the price how they see fit, with the sky generally being the limit. Check out prices for Lycoming engines, and often you’ll get the certified price, and then check out the experimental price, which is a huge difference. In the long run, I think the certified airplanes are going to eat up more of your hard earned money.
The used aircraft market is so soft right now, it’s amazing what you can buy, even Van’s aircraft. I still would like to build a 7, but gosh, can’t justify it, when I’m getting almost the same performance out of my 6 while the 7 would be almost double if I went QB, new engine, CS, and glass.
Flying is really just plane crazy, but this stuff gets in your blood. They are rarely practical, but gosh I can’t imagine my life without one these days. And going 190 mph in a straight line beat highways any day. I would like to build my own some day, so I can do my own CI’s as well. Kind of want a bushplane next too, and lots of LSA planes may be the way for me to go here. Tired of just flying to airports, really would like to get to some desolate areas that only a STOL aircraft can do.
About the PPL test: Just want to remind everybody to that the questions with answers are multiple choice which makes it much easier. I doubt they have changed it much since I took my test, but it’s been many moon ago.
Seems awfully high to me too. But he’s an 84 year old oil man that owns it, and I suppose that makes the price go up if some know you’re into money. His plane is well equipped, full IFR and all of the works. Lots of stuff to check, but still don’t know why his annuals had to be so much, other than they were taking advantage of him.
How much does/could a high-end sim setup on your computer, with all the requisite bells and whistles (full yoke and pedals setup) help you learn? Or would even the most state of the art sims teach you bad habits?
In the airlines we use big, full-motion simulators. Even those don’t fully prepare you for the real thing in certain situations. But the main thing is the instructor. You could have a great sim setup, but without good guidance from an instructor you’re asking for trouble. There won’t be anyone to stop you from picking up bad habits and practices.
I grew up playing sims. My dad was a 747 pilot, so I grew up around the industry and such. I even attended (twice) the CPAA (Computer Pilots of America Assoc) conference in Ithaca, NY… if any of you were on CompuServe in about 1990, you may remember it.
I don’t think sims help much at all and agree with Llama. They do teach instruments pretty well, but are terrible at simulating the feel of a real airplane.
Student pilot here. I agree that flying an airplane on a straight course with a constant altitude is fairly easy, as are turns (once you get used to using your feet to operate that rudders on the tail). Those same pedals are used to steer the plane while on the ground, and that’s a new way of driving that takes a little practice to master. Takeoffs and landings (especially) also take practice - learning how to glide into the ground effect requires a certain feel that must be learned through repetition.
And I’m happy to report that a plane doesn’t just fall out of the sky if you kill the engine. Depending on your altitude, you’ll have plenty of time to work through a solution. I’ve overcome any nagging fear of flying by learning how to fly.
But I think that the thread is underselling the depth of knowledge you must acquire. I liken it to taking the bar exam (I’m a lawyer; the flight school is a part time thing, and the studying is kicking my ass). Everything has an acronym, and you’ll drown in definitions. Maps (called sectionals) are heavily detailed, and you’ll need to be able to recall altitude requirements, program vectors, and steer the Damn plane in and around weather all at the same time. All while monitoring the radio.
The radio. It’s my favorite part! But, to become a pilot, you’ll need to communicate fluently in pilot-speak. Beginning with the alphabet, everything sounds new - and fast! You’ll need to hear and understand air traffic commands at the risk of your license. And this is often done under the pressure of zooming towards an airport at 100 knots or more (when ATC tells you to “enter left downwind for runway 8” your reaction needs to be instinctive).
Even the weather and flight planning is intensive. You’ll have to learn enough about weather forecasting to be able to take a run at the local weather man’s job. Right now, flight planning is making my head spin. Yes, there are flight computers that easily calculate the information you need, but, for purposes of getting your license, you need to show proficiency in the old fashioned process.
Yes, but the builder of that airplane had deviated from the designer’s original plans and thus had an unusual configuration for that, one NOT common to Long-EZ’s or any other Rutan design.
That’s one of the pitfalls of experimental homebuilts - they’re potentially quite experimental. Denver was cautioned about the fuel system and the owner before him stated he had never attempted to change fuel tanks while in flight due to concerns about the tank switching system.
Here’s a guy that taught himself how to fly by flying one of those video games. He stole something like seven planes or so, not sure how many, and was able to take every single one of them off. Landing, OTOH, he wasn’t so successful, he crashed every single one of them.
I actually got to a aviation thread before you this time.