How has the immigration crackdown benefitted us?

Great Debates
21

Do you mean the political effect or are you talking about some actual negative effect to the US?

@FlikTheBlue, agreed – there has been a huge benefit – Hispanics are flocking back to the Democratic party in droves. Recent elections show that, of various demographic groups, Hispanics shifted back the most.

So, the immigration crackdown may be what saves the American democracy if it leads to a blue wave in the fall. That’s a pretty big benefit, although these cruel policies have done real damage to families and communities along the way.

22

Can you explain what effect you have seen?

23

Sorry, I was unclear. I mean the election of Donald Trump, the loss of the Senate for the foreseeable future, and the resultant ICE crackdown (and other anti-immigration policies like the attempt to limit birthright citizenship and the travel bans from various countries).

24

We have? I saw no problems. I’m not claiming that no one saw problems anywhere. But “immigration under Biden created terrible problems” is not self-obvious to everyone.

And i do think the point of Trump’s policy is racism. He’s expanded the number of white South Africans who can enter, while attempting to expel dark-skinned people whom we have already vetted.

We can’t have both completely open borders and a social safety net. And there are people most Americans would like to exclude, like members of ISIS. Border controls are widely popular, sure. But raiding housing projects, smashing open cars on the street, and other violent action against immigrants in civilian spaces is not generally popular.

Except with racists. Or maybe nativists.

The value of these actions is that it creates fear. And there is a segment of the population that wants brown people to feel fear, and to keep their heads down. And to not be visible.

When Trump was just a real estate guy, back in 1973, he lost a case where he was charged with illegally discriminating against Black people in his rental units.

(Technically, he was forced to implement safeguards to prevent discrimination in the future, which he was later accused of also not following)

What possible benefit is there to a landlord to exclude Black tenants? Doesn’t that just reduce the number of people bidding on you apartments?

Well, if you believe that white tenants will pay more to live in a place without blacks, that’s a benefit to the landlord. If you just think that black people are inherently less likely to pay the rent, that’s also a benefit. Those are both racist reasons. He’s still a racist, but now, instead of running some apartments in NYC, he’s running the US.

25

Sorry, see above. I meant political effect (Trump elected, House lost, Senate losses). I agree any tangible effects of lax immigration control are either complicated (labor rates, housing costs, job opportunities) or misleading (crime rates).

But Democrats need a better message. It’s great to run on anti-ICE sentiment, and that might work for a while. But, IMO, they need to explain how they are going to enforce existing laws at the borders while working to create a process for law-abiding immigrants to be naturalized.

26

I see, although I would argue that it was largely a manufactured crisis used as a weapon to install Trump. If you recall, every attempt to create reasonable immigration reform was blocked and John McCain lost the GOP primary in large part because he wanted reforms that allowed for expanded guest worker visas and increased paths to residency. I’m not suggesting that what happens at the border isn’t a problem, but that the people complaining about it the loudest are the ones who ensure its continuation.

27

In fact, Trump killed a bipartisan bill that would have done things like fund border protection, and also the immigration courts. One problem with the current system is that if you make a plausible claim for refuge status, you get to stay in the US in a weird shadow status until your case is heard, and you are either granted refuge status or sent back home. And it can take years to have that hearing. If the hearings happened promptly, there wouldn’t by a motive to make weak refuge claims, and that whole stream of not-entirely-legal immigrants would shut down on its own.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4459861-trump-praises-collapse-of-bipartisan-border-deal/

But Trump didn’t want to give Biden an immigration win, and convinced Republicans (who had helped negotiate the bill) to kill it.

So yes, manufactured indeed.

But Trump hasn’t let anything like that bill happen under his presidency, either. And i think that’s because he doesn’t actually want an economically rational immigration policy. He wants to keep out brown people.

28

Also, if immigration was really the problem they claim it is, the government should be pursuing those who hire undocumented workers, not the immigrants, if there was aggressive prosecution of the employers, they would stop hiring undocumented employees. The fact that they go after the brown person yearning for a better life and not the CEO makes it clear to me that racism is a key element of the program.

29

I think this is another example of us trying to blame our problems on others. A second example would be drug interdiction - we are happy to kill and blow up drug smugglers, but I don’t see us taking much responsibility for creating the demand.

Not that we should be targeting drug users indiscriminately either. But I also agree with Puzzlegal that being able to crow about these problems and get people worked up is more valuable politically than solving them.

30

Exactly, undocumented brown people are easy victims for authoritarian thugs and it generates a great deal of enthusiasm from the MAGA base. CEOs tend to be members of the club abusing the system and paying bribes.

31

While I - and most decent human beings - would prefer that the money be spent elsewhere, there are a lot of ICE jobs and ICE-related profits to be made. So those people are benefitting. Pretty much a wash, tho, as jobs/profits could be created in any number of non-reprehensible areas (which might actually result in some general benefits as well.) Public works, clean energy, education, etc.

32

True, not personally running. But when he backs a candidate, he does get agitated if that candidate loses.

For those H1B immigrants, maybe. But the “illegals’ being rounded up are mostly doing jobs that Americans cant or wont do. There is no real effect on wages for other jobs.

Right, they arent even claiming anything other than “less crime” which is bogus.

And the Social Security taxes they pay - which they wont get back- help that program.

I worked a project on Migrant Farm workers. They often stayed at cheap housing on the farm, or they rented- and shared with several/many others- one of those “pay by the week/month” motels places. I doubt if there is any real effect here on housing.

Good point.

33

They are just some of the people who voted for the face eating leopards who will be surprised when their faces will be eaten.

34

Main effect is the election of Trump.

But I might see a benefit if I were hankering to pick grapes for $7.25 an hour.

35

It’s the smug satisfaction that’s benefit enough. A few year back, I was speaking with my MAGA mother about dreamers, those “illegals” who were brought to the United States as children, many of whom who have no memories of their nation of origin. I explained to my mother that these people did nothing wrong. They were brought to the United States when they were children and had no say in where they went, they are thoroughly American having been raised here, and they may no even speak the language of their country of origin. To send them back at this point in their life is just cruel.

Her response was, “I don’t want their parents to win.” The woman who raised me, inculcating values that included treating people fairly, wants to punish people for something their parents did. I ended the conversation because I was pretty close to saying things that’d likely damage our relationship (it’s strained enough as it is).

Granted I think a lot of them, my MAGA mother included, thinks all these “illegals” are causing all sorts of crime. I’m not sure if she actually believed Haitians were eating cats and dogs, we don’t talk politics often, but she definitely buys into the idea that we’re being overrun by gangs. I don’t think tangible benefits are what matters to MAGA or many Americans. It’s just the smug feeling of knowing they’re screwing someone over.

36

There is no net benefit, but as in most disasters there are small, unintended improvements.

We spend a LOT of time RV-ing around the US. And over the last decade, big rig drivers have become increasingly more aggressive and hostile. This increase is noted over many years in my journal, as I write about each day’s events.

Until this fall. The turnaround is amazing, at least to us. No more tailgating. No more intimidation. No more lane sweeps. No more blocking us in at truck stops. It all stopped, seemingly overnight.

My wife noticed it as well, and her observation was “It’s like they don’t want to do anything that draws attention.” That’s my take as well. My guess is a lot of them don’t want to be reported, or deal with any LE officials, or end up on anyone’s video channel.

I don’t know if it’s directly tied to the increased scrutiny of immigrants, and it could be some other change I’m unaware of. I’m certainly open to other theories, but the simplest answer seems to be all the crackdowns.

Again, this improvement is part of a larger horror-show that makes life worse for all of us. But it’s the only tiny benefit I’ve noticed.

37

Not “immigrants”; brown people. Being an American citizen won’t protect you.

38

The simple fact is that we are a nation of laws and that no one should benefit from breaking those laws. There’s no “smug satisfaction” to be had. It’s what needs to be done.

39

The premise is that if there weren’t a pool of people from poor countries, the wages for those jobs would have to go up high enough to interest Americans. There are plenty of people working hard, dirty jobs like steel mill or coal mines. They just want to be paid more than $7.25 an hour.

What that would do to prices for those goods is s separate impact.

From their perspective, it’s the undocumented that are screwing us over by defying the system. Thus the remark about “winning”.

40

I know that’s true, but if ICE were to ask me where I was born, even being a white dude who looks 100% MAGA, I’d be afraid to tell them. My father was a soldier and I was born overseas. To admit that would give the Gestapo a plausible reason to take me in if they didn’t like the cut of my jib.

I do think immigrants, legal or otherwise, have an impact on the cost of labor. There are likely some very real short term cost to having immigrants here. I suspect the long term benefits make those short term costs worthwhile. Do you think anyone working in a steel mill or coal mine makes minimum wage? I think the average annual wage here in the US for a coal miner is a little over $50,000 or $25 an hour.

Sure. But the OP asked for tangible benefits. A poor, white MAGA voter here in Bryant, Arkansas can’t point to any tangible benefit for themselves from the crackdown.