Lots of anecdotes, but the plural of anecdote is not data.
Dylan, that site only says that pumas can jump 6m. That is obviously not a standing jump. Physics just wouldn’t allow a jump of anywhere near that height.
From some slightly more reputable sites, with the physics involved:
“But the ratio of energy to mass, E/m, will remain constant. Therefore, the larger animal will jump to the same height as the smaller animal! The grasshopper, a mouse, man, and an elephant should then all be able to jump to the same height. Of course, this isn’t exactly what we find. Some animals have different proportions of muscle. The muscles may be attached differently to the skeletal structure, giving different efficiencies for different types of motion. And, the biochemistry of the muscle proteins and enzymes involved in metabolism to produce ATP may be different. But, if you think about it carefully, you may come to the conclusion that a grasshopper and an elephant may jump to about the same height.” http://www.bio.miami.edu/tom/bil160/bil160goods/17_scaling.html
Jumping:
– The work done in leaping up is proportional to the mass and height (h) of the jump (I) W ~ M h
– Power available is proportional to the mass of the muscle (m) which is proportional to the mass of the animal or W ~ m thus h tends to be constant irrespective of the animal. http://mmadou.eng.uci.edu/Classes/MAE252/MAE252%20Classes/Class%2011.pdf.
Obviously slightly different designs etc will have some affect, but those people claiming that cats can jump 6 feet or pumas 20 feet will either need to do some clever work with the physics and physiology, or else find some credible references to support their claims.
No, the fundamental problem is on your side, Blake.
My personal observation actually does negate your disproof.
Cats can jump that high. I went out and measured the height of the wall before I posted. I’m not mis-remembering: the cat’s shock and surprise at missing the wall, and then the walking down from the car roof as if nothing untoward had happened are things that mark the incident in memory.
I repeat Desmostylus, the plural of anecdote is not data. It seems that every univesity physiology and physics department says that cats can’t jump 6 feet, and they can show the calculations illustrating why. I am inlcined to trust them over your anecdotal account.
It is easy for people not to know what they are seeing when looking at a fast moving object like a cat. If you have any evidence for what you claim you saw then present it by all means. If you don’t it is just an anecdote, and no more credible than those people who claim they have seen Elvis working at Burger King.
Just one from a reputable source will give us something to discuss. A university webpage would be favourite. Or a peer-reviewed science journal. A government agency specialising in measuring animal movement would also be acceptable. Anything that is reputable.
In case you haven’t realised ther is a lot of misinformation on the net. Studies show that around 60% is porn and around 70% of what is left contains erroneous information. The odds are strongly against finding accurate information on a web-page. You can find ‘evidence’ supporting anything on the net. I don’t know where this idea that a Google count constitutes evidence comes from, but I’ve seen it twice already today. The last instance was someone saying that Google had 5000 sites of eyewitness accounts of ghosts. Lots of websites saying there are ghosts is not evidence, nor are lots of websites saying that pumas can jump 6 metres.
You need to give us something reputable, not just a webpage.
Gakk. How can a board dedicated to fighting ignorance have so many people who seem to believe that lots of people claiming to have seen something makes it true?
I can only repeat, the plural of anecdote is not data.
I have seen posts form two people today who claim to have seen ghosts. That doesn’t makes ghosts real either. not just a webpage.
I ma not saying that you are lying, I am saying that without controlled experimental design or high speed footage there is no way to know how much the cat pivoted in flight.
Well, I’m gonna chime in with a “fact” without cite: I remember reading somewhere that the way felines jump, they jump just as high from stationary as on the run…
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. YOUR CLAIM that a puma can only jump two feet is the extroardinary one.
Find me a cite that says a puma can only jump 2 feet.
Remember when scientists discovered that bumblebees shouldn’t be able to fly? I guess all the people who see them flying every day are just the plural of anecdote, huh? :rolleyes:
On the other hand… anecdotal evidence is indeed evidence, just a different class of evidence. You have at least 4 posters (including myself) who have observed the same phenomenom. How do you explain this? I don’t care if you find a thousand papers saying the sky is green, if I observe the sky is blue, you ought to find some reason for my observation. Empiricism trumps theory any day.
No, the problem is still on your side. Really. You look for some experimental results that disprove the observations that other people have posted. High-school physics just isn’t going to cut it in this instance.
No it isn’t. It is easy to make a mistake in your calculations, but that only proves you aren’t very good at maths. If you believe there are errors in any of the calculations presented by those universities then point out to us where we are.
To date we have numerous universities claiming that cats can only jump about a metre, and anecdotes of cats jumping much higher.
This board is supposed to be about fighting ignorance isn’t it. This is GQ, where the answers are supposed to be factual isn’t it?
How about we fight some ignorance and get some facts rather than anecdotes.
I’m quite happy to be wrong on this, but I’m less than happy to see people disputing reputable fact with Google searches, anecdotes and completely baseless insinuations that the calculations are faulty.
Does anyone have some FACTS about high a cat can jump aside from the ones I have posted? Factual answers please, not anecdotes, not Gooogle searches, not baseless insinuation.
OK, I realise this is going to go down as just another baseless assertion, but an almost universal problem for cat owners is that the cats jump up onto the kitchen worktops - worktops are more than two feet off the ground, kitchen laminates do not permit purchase for scrabbling and the cats can do it from a stationary crouching position.
There is absolutely no error in my calculations above. I’m frankly astounded that you, claiming that physics supports your case, would make such an absurd claim.
“Therefore, the larger animal will jump to the same height as the smaller animal!”
“Power available is proportional to the mass of the muscle (m) which is proportional to the mass of the animal or W ~ m thus h tends to be constant irrespective of the animal.”
“the height of the jump is independent of the animal’s size!”
No, and since this is GQ I am calling you out. Give us a reputable reference for that please.
I don’t. I have, as I pointed out, had two posters today who have observed ghosts. I didn’t attempt to explain that either. I agree that anecdotal evidence is indeed evidence, but it’s not worth much.
I agree 100%. So if you can show me empirical, not anecdotal, evidence that cats can jump 6 feet clear I will be convinced. So far no one has shown anything supporting that claim except Google searches, anecdotes and completely baseless insinuations.
An argument from ignorance. My goodness. I have all the reputable evidence backing my position but because I can’t disprove yours, based entirely on anecdote, that somehow invalidates my position and/or supports your. Desmostylus that is a classic argument form ignorance.
It can be applied to ghosts just as easily, I hope you realise that. People today have posted that they have seen ghosts. Do you now accept the existence of ghosts or do you have some experimental results that disprove the observations that other people have posted?
Those were university/college physics websites, not high school.
With how many times I’ve WATCHED a cat jump from a stand-still (with crouch and butt-wiggling) onto the top of a refrigerator (about 5.5’), I don’t think I will ever believe anyone who says a housecat can only jump 4’. Not scrambling. Just “jump-land-glare at me from above.” I’m always stunned when I see it, but I’ve seen so many frikkin cats do this . . .
I said 2 feet IIRC in my first post. It turns out I recalled wrong and the standard height all animals can jump to is about 1 metre/3’4”. Or slightly higher than the average worktop. I am sorry if I did not make that clear.