Then I have to assume you have not read the article. There are multiple quotes and tweets in there, all attributed to specific people. The article is all about the evolution of the term.
Why would you pull one person out of that article and ignore the rest? Are you dismissing the views of the rest of them as well?
…concession accepted. We aren’t talking about the evolution of the term. I asked for a cite the same is true for many of those who do or would have considered themselves to be “woke”.
Which one of the other people in the article consider themselves woke? Bhaskar Sunkara, who considers “Language on the left can be a problem?” Zaid Jilani, who thinks that " word woke loosely refers to a social media-fueled, leftwing political ideology that emerged in the English-speaking world in the early 2010s?" Are you telling me Jilani considers themselves woke? He sounds pretty anti-woke to me.
I said I’d be impressed if you actually found a couple of random examples easily. Consider me not impressed.
None offered. You have the names and you have the literature.
I am, You don’t accept that it has happened by people from all sides and you’ve been presented with cites on exactly that subject.
By the standards of the core concepts in your original definition? pretty much everyone.
…accepted regardless.
Well I know exactly why you are ignoring my request for a cite. Its because you are unable to find anyone that considers themselves woke who uses a definition outside of the original one.
You haven’t shown me a single person. Give me a name. Give me a quote.
This is a bizarre assertion that simply isn’t backed up by your cite.
Who said anything about the definition being outside of the original one? I’m talking about expanding from the original one to encompass other issues, policies and actions.
Yes, it is an assertion. I’m quite comfortable asserting that all of the people in that article would agree that, if woke means “awareness of systematic injustices and prejudices”, then they are woke. I would as well, pretty much every single person I’ve ever met would think that as well.
…because if everyone that identifies as woke agrees with the original definition of woke, then that means that no, “both sides” are not just making up their own definitions. It means that one side is, and one side isn’t. It isn’t an endlessly malleable term for people of all sides.
That wasn’t what I asked you for a cite for.
I’ve already quoted Zaid Jilani’s definition. They said that the “word woke loosely refers to a social media-fueled, leftwing political ideology that emerged in the English-speaking world in the early 2010s.”
Jilani doesn’t agree with the original definition. They use it as a pejorative. They are not woke. They are anti-woke.
I didn’t ask for a cite for people that you considered woke. I asked for a cite for people that considered themselves woke. That’s the starting point. Not an article where people define woke. But people who consider themselves woke but use an alternative defintion of the word.
It isn’t for me to provide a cite for a claim I didn’t make.
…cite please.
As discussed in my link, the consensus in Islam scholarship is that there is no reliable evidence that Muhammad consummated his marriage with Aisha before her puberty (which was the “adulthood” threshold for girls’ marital eligibility in most societies at the time, including Christian ones), and a great deal of evidence against it. Now that you know this, you know that continuing to refer to Muhammad as a “pedophile” based on your own preference for that distorted interpretation of the historical facts is ignorant bigotry.
Maybe we can get back on track, with most folks agreeing to these principles:
Does anyone have any evidence to contradict any of these points?
What a mess …
No more on the Muslim/Muhammad Hijack. Stay on Woke please.
I will try to hide most of the off-topic hijack, I don’t see anything here worth breaking out to its own thread. Mostly sniping.
While I’m at it, @Novelty_Bobble & @Banquet_Bear, drop your sniping also. It is not contributing in any way to the debate at this point.
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No, they all seem to be fair points to which I’d add
OK, will do.
The passive voice, as usual, obscures agency and responsibility. I would rephrase your point as follows:
Edit: anticipating a quibble with the word “conservative,” if you wish, you may substitute “people have used the term “woke” as an insult for additional causes, concepts, actions, and policies etc. that they oppose”. The key feature is that this expansion of the term is propelled by insults and opposition, not by self-identification, given how rare self-identification is. I think this is what @Banquet_Bear is saying–do I have the essence of your point, BB?
No, For some reason your summary is only dealing with the change to using the word as an insult. That is not the only way the term has expanded in its usage and reach.
Probably because there has been no evidence presented for any other change to the use of the word. You were REPEATEDLY asked to provide a citation for the idea that people who use the term “woke” to describe themselves have expanded the definition, and you have failed to do so, only bringing up additional examples of people mocking the term.
Again… Cite?
I was a little surprised by this. I wouldn’t expect it to be in use by the majority, but given the origins of the term in the Black community being centred on how important it was to be woke, I’d expect that there’d be quite a lot of people within the community who did self-identify that way, at least.
Do you have any stats? According to this, in July 2021 one in three (32%) of US voters said they consider themselves to be woke. I’m afraid I don’t know if Hill-HarrisX is a reputable polling org, but (perhaps tellingly?) it’s the only poll that comes up in initial googling.
(By comparison, 12% of people in the UK identify as woke which at 1 in 8 is common enough - I’d certainly expect the UK figure to be lower than the US, for obvious reasons.)
If people have become less likely to identify as woke since July 2021, and if this is because it’s become a boo-word on the right, I’d think that was a bad thing. It’s good to have a useful word to indicate that one cares about social justice, and bad if people feel they can’t use it.
You’re not BB. I was asking @Banquet_Bear, not you, if I was summarizing his point accurately.