FORD sold off its money-losing subsidiary Jaguar to TATA of India, last year. I wonder how it is doing? The recession has hit luxury car sales hard…and I wonder if TAT regrets its acquisition. I don’t know if TAT reports financial results for Jaguar-anyone know?
econd: has there been any move to moving Jaguar from England to India? I don’t think this would make sense-I could see a massive sales drop if they attempted this…who would buy a luxury marque made in India?
Tatas are getting a loan.
I dont think they will move it to India, for the reasons you stated.
I live in india, there is big luxury market in india.
You will supprised how many you see.
ajfrod,
I think raplh is commenting on european buyers using a luxuary car made in India ! Not domestic buyers buying locally made luxuary cars .
I opened this thread to ask why you were capitalizing every letter in Tata, and if you knew it was taken from the name of its founder and is like capitalizing every letter in Ford. But, there you go…
As I mentioned, the luxury car business is totally different-assembling Jaguars is NOT like assembling Toyota Camrys…the volumes are tiny (in comprison) and there are no economies of scale. Tata is a large conglomerate-but I doubt it has any experience in marketing luxury goods. Part of the Jaguar mystique is the “English craftsmanship”, “connoly leather”, “wood grain dashboards”. Nobod will buy a $100,000 car if they think it is being turned out by 3rd-world labor.
I’d be willing to bet that Tata will have Jag up for sale, in a few years.
I figure, since the Jaguar…and possibly Daimler…and Land Rover marques are now operating away from Ford, perhaps some engineering and design will spread between the premium marques and trickle down to the more pedestrian TATA fare.
Maybe we will now think of Land Rover as the SUV division of Jaguar…sharing some engine/transmission tech.
Uh, Damiler was not part of Ford…they had “merged” with Chrysler and gave us such technological innovations as the Crossfire ( a rebadged Mercedes) and I think some transmission technology, but they basically just raped Chrysler for the cash and then left them out to dry.
Boy, you can say that again about the quality of the XJ8s anyway. I bought a new 2001 for about half of the $100K you mentioned, and it is the best car I have ever owned by far. Amazing attention to detail, the mechanical parts, unlike in the old days, are extradinary. It is eight years old and runs and looks like it was brand new.
So, I probably will keep it until I kick the bucket, but you’re right, I’d never buy another one if it was not made by the same folks in England.
One should note that the Tata Group, which Tata Motors is one division of, is a ginormous conglomerate which already does most of its business outside India. One can find figures that Tata Group revenues account for about 3% of India’s total GDP.
Tata Motors, in particular, has aspirations to become a significant global player. They are thinking far beyond India, using the Nano as a lever. I keep wondering if we’re going to see them eventually swallow some of the bits and pieces of a cannibalized GM or Chrysler, although they have said they aren’t interested in Saturn.
They look to be having problems, post credit crunch, with the amount of debt they took on taking over Landrover and Jaguar…
Slight side-track, but tthis was always a big “red flag” to me about the pre credit crunch world, how can it EVER make sense to borrow oodles of cash, simply to transfer the ownership of a company. Nothing is gained, or built, its just instead of being Landrover-Ford its now Landrover-Tata, but somehow billions of dollars are now owed by the new company.
People said the exact same thing when Toyota, Honda, and Nissan went into the luxury market. People will buy it if it delivers what it promises; the mystique only goes so far.
Different Daimlers.
Daimler Motor Company
Daimler AG
It’s just financial leverage, like it would be in any other situation. If it pays off, it pays off big for the shareholders. Same as any leveraged deal.
Whether an acquisition makes sense strategically or financially are two different things, albeit related.
My sense, and CMIIW, but Ford didn’t really want to sell Jag and LR but were so strapped for cash that they were forced to do something. When originally purchased by Ford, these were long term projects. The Jaguar factory was one of the lowest tech automobile factories in the world and as a result Jaguar quality/reliability was very poor. Ford built a new factory and resolved the quality issues. Ford invested a lot of money and couldn’t stick around for the expected payoff. Jaguar has some very innovative technology such as the all-aluminum construction of the XK. In the latest surveys, Jaguar is at the top of the list in initial owner satisfaction. That is what Tata bought. There is no reason to move Jaguar or LR out of Great Britain.
Now Tata can further bastardize the nameplate buy tacking it on to downscale, mass produced vehicles (like Ford did) but the Jaguar bloodlines have, for the most part been cleaned up and they produce some spectacular cars. Obviously, the current downturn has hurt but if Tata rides it out and lets Jaguar and LR make good management decisions it could pay off.
Wait…what? What’s confusing about one company buying a business from another company? They aren’t just buying a brand-name and logo. They are buying factories and cars and technologies. If Jaguar and Land Rover are profitable brands, then the investment will be paid off in 5, 10, 15 years…whatever. This is good business, money now for a payoff later. If Tata is smart and able to use the better Jag/LR technologies to improve their current brands and the cache to increase their lesser brands market perception that’s icing on the cake.
You seem to have Jaguar (2007 sales catastrophically down to 60,000) confused with Bentley (2007 sales up to a record-breaking 10,000) or Aston Martin. Jaguar were trying (and failing) to compete with BMW, Audi, Volvo, Lexus and the like, not with genuinely high-end cars. And the whole faux-retro “English” thing you describe is one of the main reasons why Jaguar was rotting away - it just wasn’t selling because you can’t do it on the cheap better than Toyota, VW, BMW etc. do, and you can’t do it properly for less than RR/AM/Bentley money.
The XF (which maybe perhaps will save Jaguar) will do so because it’s a modern car, not because it’s a blast from the past. And no matter what happens, all that modern technology, some of the best and most advanced work Ford could put together, will now get piped straight into Tata’s organisation in India and used to build cars that can go head-to-head with Ford, GM and Chrysler in the lower segments, just like SAIC got a whole grab-bag of BMW and Honda expertise with the carcass of Rover.
Maybe it’s because Tata and Ford badges are often in all-caps?
Interesting how quickly perceptions change; up until the mid-90s Jaguar (and all other British marques) were an absolute byword for unreliability, as I’m sure you know. It’s heartening to see that reputations can be rebuilt with a few years of better quality.
Correct me if I’m wrong, bt aren’t all Jaguar powerplnts and transmissions based upon Ford designs?
Presumably, Ford till owns the patensts rights on the engines and transmissions.
Does Jaguar make its own engines now?
Not a good reason. Anyway, Ford’s primary logo isn’t in all caps. But we should all know by now that Ralph has his own ideas about capitalization.
