How is the Religious Right dealing with the election

Great Debates
41

I was raised ‘Fundamental Christian.’ My mom’s not taking it well, I don’t think. The whole campaign drove her off the deep end. In all my years, I’ve never heard such hate and vitriol come out of her mouth. She practically ripped my family apart because of it. I have 3 sisters and me. We were all raised the same. 2 of my sisters and myself would try and calmly debate why Obama was the right choice, at least to us. Calmly, until she started spewing that fundamental dog shit. My sisters can’t hold back, so they would get really upset, then I had to mediate. I had to explain that America is not, and never was a, holy, sacred country, deemed by God himself as pure. I quoted the Constitution. Made it clear that this is a free country, and that’s how we should vote. I raised parallels to God and America: If God created us with free-will, then the onus is on us to make the right choices. Law or no law. America works in the same way in which God created us. I tried to reason that abortion needs to stay legal, because no matter what laws you make, you have to leave it to the individual to make the choice or not. So, on top of being a “sinner”, why make them a criminal as well? You can’t legislate faith. We went around and around on the end-times, the Iraq war, the economy, terrorism, “he’s a muslim”, “he’s not a citizen”, all that horse crap. Then she was out with the personal insults. Calling me and my sisters stupid, and back-sliding-sinners. There was nothing more to say. You couldn’t have a two-way conversation with her. So I wrote and emailed letter to both her and my dad.

It ended up being really long, but heartfelt and honest, in which explained my point of view since I was a kid – raised in a church with very strong beliefs – to the agnostic I am now. I emailed it to my dad and her both. My dad called me, cried, and said how proud of me he was. My mom, never said a word. And hasn’t since the election. But she’s pretending to go on like none of this ever happened. I still love her, the both of them, very much. I never regretted a thing, and only harbor contempt for closed-mindedness, no matter what your religion, politics, or philosophy.

This was an important election for me personally, because it raised all this stuff that we are too afraid to talk about, to the surface. It forced me to confront this once and for all. See, my mom’s afraid. She’s built up enemies that aren’t really there. They all have. And they’re all afraid of these illusions. That’s just what drives them, fear and hate. It creates division. Not very Christian, if you ask me. I refuse to buy into it, and will love her through to the end, and I told her as much. I also told her I am not afraid. I think she thinks I should be. I just hope she can come around. Her religion has borne her hate. Tragic.

42

Man, I wish you were right. I just unfortunately don’t think you are. ANYTHING Obama does is going to be what they were most afraid he would do.

But please God/Buddha/Universe/FSM/IPU/Science - prove me wrong. Please.

43

Correct. To relinquish their fear, is to denounce their faith. Simple as that.

44

That’s sad, and it’s true.

45

Indeed. Now times that by the bulk of the religious right. It’s an ugly trap, and a cancer to democracy and true civil freedom.

I’d say it was generational, but I’ve had the same arguments with some of my fundie friends… and their children…

46

Sort of. They’re pretty socially conservative, that’s for sure. Socially conservative enough for my religophrenic wingnut mom to be a supporter. They do oppose the Patriot Act, and that’s not a bad thing.
cmyk, I’m sorry to hear about your crazy parents. I go through the same thing. I had to hear about all the crazy right-wing propaganda from my parents. I asked them if they really believe that Obama is a secret Muslim, and that he’s going to go “Manchurian Candidate” on us when he gets in the White House?
Then the Jeremiah Wright story broke, and I had to tell them that Wright is a Christian minister, ergo Obama can’t be a muslim. To this they replied that Wright isn’t really a Christian, meaning he’s not Christian enough for them, or he’s not the same brand of Christian crazy as them. They love Sarah Palin and hate Michelle Obama. When I confided to my dad my fear that we will see a rise in domestic terrorism from redneck klansmen offended by having an ‘uppity nigger’ in the Oval office, he beamed an evil smile at me.

This is after hearing for over ten years how the Clintons have had, I think, over fifty people murdered to keep them quiet about everything from Bill’s infidelities, their alleged crooked real estate deals in the Ozarks, Hillary’s alleged lesbian affairs (I wish I was making this up), and maybe even Chelsea’s grades.

ON THE BRIGHT SIDE, I have been able to turn my parents against the war in Iraq, not by convincing them that Saddam had no WMD’s, but that invading a foreign country with a hundred thousand collateral deaths for personal enrichment from military contracts is immoral and an abomination in the sight of God.

47

Wow, that’s pretty ridiculous. You should tell them to back a different horse.

48

I have a good friend who also speaks of the last days. I told her to read her Bible. Jesus is quoted as saying, the stars would fall, the moon would not give it’s light etc. He is also quoted as saying those things would happen before that generation passed,and in another quote he was quoted as saying there were some standing there who would not die before it happened. So the world should have ended 2,000 years ago, if the Bible is correct.

Monavis

49

Have you read any of the books I suggested?

Long story short- it happened. The Greek word for “world” in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is “aion”. The Old Covenant Aion ended in 70 A.D. with the destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple & the priestly sacrificial system. Both Josephus & the Talmud record some pretty funky aerial phenomena going on during the Roman Siege. Finally, “the sun & moon darkening and the stars falling” are OT symbolism for the collapse of societies & nations & downfall of rulers.

David Chilton- The Great Tribulation is a fine intro. Great Tribulation

His Paradise Restored and Days of Vengeance are also available for deeper study.
http://www.garynorth.com/freebooks/docs/21de_47e.htm

http://www.garynorth.com/freebooks/docs/2226_47e.htm
This theory is not his alone- it’s just that he’s written what I consider to be the best books on the subject. For more info, look up “Preterism”, especially “Partial Preterism”.

50

The Constitution Party has a big problem in becoming the C’tian Right’s party.

It’s iffy about Israel, and a big chunk of the Christian Right in America is very loyal to Israel.

51

I guess it’s not always worth discussing logical matters like this with people who are prepared to believe anything that will support their preconceived notions of how the world works. This thread has become sufficient evidence of that.

It’s like they always say: you can lead an irrational animal to water, but you can’t make him drink.

52

Gee… that sounds like some families I knew 4 yrs ago. Hate and vitriol abounds on all sides.
Aside from my friends private reactions, there were the very public reactions of Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, and a couple of million people at moveon.com, (and hundreds of posts right here, by Dopers who wanted to leave the country, etc …)

Every election sparks cries of doom and destruction from the side that lost. And after every election the pundits declare that the losing party is dead forever , and its only hope is to re-invent itself as something totally new.
But in reality, both parties will keep functioning about the same as before.

Lets not forget that the election was not a landslide; the popular vote shows both parties with almost equal support. Obama’s win wasn’t all due to his previously announced policies. It was also due to the totally unexpected economic meltdown, which scared enough people into taking a chance that his messianic image will turn out to be true.

Four years from now, the whole situation could easily be reversed, and this thread will be re-titled “How is the left dealing with the election”

53

chappachula, the difference is we already had good evidence to know that George W. Bush was extremely destructive to this country. Would you like some examples? They had nothing to do with his being the anti-Christ, or not a citizen, or being a Muslim, or being uppity. They had to do with things like lying to get us into an unnecessary war and spying on American citizens without warrants. Are you capable of understanding the difference?

ETA: The situations are not comparable. The left was not driven by irrational fears; it was unfortunately driven by very rational fears, thank you very much. As it happened, Bush’s second term was marginally more moderate than his first, but he has done plenty of less than sterling things now, too, right down to his last minute relaxing of environmental regs to allow uranium mining within three miles of the Colorado River before it’s too late and Obama can stop him.

54

And the right is also driven by “very rational” fears.
You fear an unnecessary war and spying on citizens.
The right fears gay marriage and murder of innocent fetuses.

My point is that every election causes the losing party to fear (and sometimes panic). They fear that the winner will totally destroy the country, and that the losing party is dead forever. And every time, the fear proves to be exaggerated.
Life goes on pretty much the same as it did before, and both parties continue with the same platforms as before.

55

How do you figure “almost equal support?” Obama got 8 million votes more than McCain did in a race with 1.23 million voters. Those 8 million votes represent 6.5% of the total number of voters. By way of contrast, the 2000 election showed pretty even popular support - Gore won the popular vote by 500,000 votes out of just over 100 million - 0.5% of the total votes cast.

In 1980 (the apparent benchmark for landslides), Reagan won by 8 million votes - his margin of victory was almost 11% of the total number of votes cast. 2008 looks a lot closer to Reagan’s victory than Bush’s.

56

The hard core republican political base is about 25 %. In order to be competitive, they promise much to lure other groups into supporting them. What do the rich power brokers in America have in common with the religious right, gun nuts , anti gays and anti abortion groups? Not a thing. They just need their votes. Nothing is ever delivered when they are in power. They claim they will, but deliver zip.

57

There are also some Democratic fundamentalist Christians who think Obama’s victory is by God’s divine hand. I just talked to someone who held that belief. In fact many blacks are very devout and conservative Christians who see Obama’s election as evidence that God arranged Obama’s victory because He is fed up with the evil Republicans. Every time I mentioned “this remarkable time in our history” or “amazing how far we’ve come” or “amazing how fast Obama rose to this level” or about how many unrelated circumstances lined up simultaneously to lead to Obama’s victory, she tried to switch it to back to being God’s response to those evil Republicans. I didn’t bother to challenge it because I know her well enough to know my opinions in that regard wouldn’t put a dent in hers.

Many Democratic fundamentalist Christians are currently praising God and giving thanks to God for answering their prayers. But they also have ways of rationalizing it when God let the so-called “evil” flourish unchecked through all those Republican years. IOW, rationalizing with “Godly” notions is not just a Republican thing; it’s a Christian fundamentalist thing.

58

I’m an white,agnostic myself but I would say that the Christian Fundamentalists will just have to accept that Obama being elected to the most powerful position on the planet must surely prove that god is black.

So best they start changing their ways if they wish to become full time harpists in the future.

59

You don’t seem to understand the difference between policy issues and character issues. The things you mention here as right wing fears, while total distortions of Barack Obama’s particular positions, are policy fears (Barack Obama has not and will not support gay marriage and does not support any change in abortion law - he is not pro-abortion, any more than any other sane person is pro-abortion, and probably less pro-choice than many). But except for one mention of abortion above, that’s not what was being mentioned above. What was being mentioned above was entirely false, in fact patently absurdly ridiculous character issues, such as Barack Obama being a Muslim or an Arab or the AntiChrist.

Do you understand the difference? That’s not even getting into the fact that George W. Bush had already done the things we had feared in 2004: this was not fear based on speculation as to what he would do, but fear based on what he had already done and made clear he would continue to do. If you find these two things (that is, things that have already happened and will continue to happen, and things that might happen if what you wildly fear comes true) to be indistinguishable, then you are so incapable of making rational distinctions that there can be no communication here. I suspect that’s a little over the line for Great Debates, so I’ll apologize now: I’m sorry for remarking that you might be incapable of rational distinctions.

60

Okay, now I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

Oh hell. If necessary I’ll cry later. BWA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAAH!