True. For one thing: As we’ve noted in this thread, polls are increasingly used by those polled as low-stakes opportunities to express grievances.
I agree with your assessment, but I have trouble understanding it. Biden has been an outstanding, consequential president, who has advanced the Democratic agenda very effectively. I am very enthusiastic about a second term.
All this age nonsense is what is feeding it, IMO. If this were, for example, Mayor Pete’s first term (or fill in with your own favorite alternative) with the exact same accomplishments, Dems would be euphoric in their support.
BTW, life expectancy for an 80-year old is to live to 87 years, 9 months. For an active 80-year old with the best medical care possible, I’m sure it’s a bit more.
Eh, I’m sure age worries are a part of it, but we’ve discussed to death why it’s being pushed first by (R), and secondarily by (D). Personally, one of the reasons I worry about older candidates is that many (and as a not-random example I’m looking at Trump) don’t seem to care as MUCH about consequences because they’re certain they won’t have to deal with them.
But more what I said above:
It’s not that he’s bad, it’s just that many of us want something more. Probably someone more aggressive in pursuing a number of ‘liberal’ agendas, rather than supporting them while trying not to terrify a huge number of conservative posters.
Which is what I was driving at with “probably best bet to win, but not what we want ”.
But right now I’m infinitely more concerned with NOT letting Trump and his supporters turn our nation into a completely fascist state, which is the literal result of his stated ambitions. Furthering other political goals is, sadly, a far distant second.
I saw the scariest thing on Thanksgiving Day. When I got up, I went to twitter to see what was going on. One of the trending topics was a new movie (?) someone had made about the coming of trump. I guess Amazon had just removed it from their platform, but twitter was showing clips. I can’t for the life of me remember any of the details, but it scared me silly. I felt such a terrible dread. I know I sound ridiculous, but I felt such an insidious evil that I started to cry uncontrollably. I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown. I finally got myself under control and went on with the holiday, but ever since then, that feeling has sort of lingered in the background of my mind.
I was going to come here and talk to you guys about it, but twitter seems to have also taken it off their platform.
But when I think about people I know and care about who worship trump, it makes my heart hurt. How can they not see what he is? It’s just so obvious that he’s not a good person.
So I don’t know how trump is still a viable candidate. But I know there is a lot of very dark money and power behind him and it is frightening as hell to me.
I fear not for myself because I’m old now, but my grandkids, I can’t even think about it.
I start to cry just typing this out.
I get that way sometimes. (((@not_what_you_d_expect )))
Thank you. You sure are sweet for a dung beetle.
That’s a hug, can’t code, sorry.
Aw shucks!
The thing is, it’s not nonsense. How many octogenarians do you see regularly? I think Biden is doing great right now, and I think there’s a good chance he’ll be doing great when he leaves his second term in office. But with men in their early to mid-80s, it’s a real gamble. One I’m willing to make, but it’s not “nonsense” to worry about it. I would like to see him address the issue, but I know that he won’t, because admitting reality is admitting weakness and he can’t be seen to do that. As it stands, I don’t know whether he’ll be the one to put down his car keys when he realizes his reflexes have slowed to that point, or my dad the one who is going to wait until he gets in a wreck and have the authorities do it for him. I’m confident of the backup plan (=VP), but the fact that he didn’t step aside after Term 1 makes me worry that he might not even when he should.
The “nonsense” is to channel all the ageist bullshit and throw it at him, while simultaneously ignoring that Trump has the same issues—he’s less than four years younger than Biden, and doesn’t seem to take nearly as good care of himself. He’d be starting his second term older than Biden began the first, so all of the “Biden is too old!” crowd should logically refuse Trump, too (or they would if they did logic).
Well, Biden was always more of VP material than the type of charisma voters look for in a president. Harris is actually the same, but even weaker. I neve was impressed her as speaker, from the beginning.
I’ve never voted for a Republican, 40 years.
A lump of shit in a Pringles can would be a better president than Trump.
Cue in You Can’t Always Get What You Want.
We should want more and better and it’s good to want more and better. But moping about the hard fact that we’re not getting “more” of what we like only weakens our morale in the struggle.
Meanwhile the other side values in their candidates and themselves the having zero Fs to give about being extremely aggressive in pursuing an agenda of whatever will at any given moment terrify the opponent.
And retirement age is around 65. They’re both too old for this.
My lovely American friends.
It is not “ageist” to call old people old.
~80 is really too old to do anything other people depend on you for. Statistically you are about to keel over any minute.
Nobody would hire a 80 y.o. driver.
It’s ageist to say that a person can’t do a job they are capable of because they’re too old.
Statistically anyone can die at any age. Saying nobody can depend on a person who is 80 is being extremely ageist. You’re doing a great job of demonstrating the problem, though I’m sure that wasn’t your intent.
I also wouldn’t bet on an 80 year old man in a foot race against a young athlete, but none of that has any relevance to this job. Heck, the Secret Service won’t even let the POTUS drive (regardless of age).
The Secret Service let Obama drive with Jerry Seinfeld—but only on the White House grounds.
And then they let Biden do this…
Statistically, no. I already provided a stat in this thread.
64% of the public don’t understand statistics.
I agree with that, but I don’t think the calculation is that either Biden or Trump is too old to do the job right now. The calculation is that in two years, they might be. To an extent, this is borrowing trouble—we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it, and that’s why we have Vice Presidents, anyway.
It is simply a fact that people do, eventually, decline and die, and beyond a certain point, your risk approaches certainty. Where that risk becomes too much is is a matter for reasonable debate. There’s no clear absolute. Starting a four-year term at 70 seems well within acceptable risk; 75 for a person in good health, ditto. But 78 (Trump in Jan 2025)? 82 (Biden)? Maybe. If the individual is healthy in Jan. 2025, at this point, it really says very little about where they will or won’t be in January 2029.
I think a lot of people will be swayed here by personal experience: one’s 80s vary a lot, and I’ve been lucky enough to socialize with lots of people in their 80s and 90s. But this means I’ve also see a lot of people who were healthy and vibrant in their early 80s who died not long after that. Things come up.
I wish Biden the best (Trump will have to do without my well wishes), and I hope he has four great and healthy years as President. But I don’t think it’s ageist to consider an alternative the way it would be if he were ten years younger: it’s just factoring in what we know about humans.