Would someone who weighed, say, 750 lbs be capable of surviving proportionally longer without food than someone weighing 150 lbs? Since I’m guessing most of that weight is from fat itself the body would have an abundant supply of stores in the case of having to deal with starvation.
With unlimited water or not?
probably not all that long…a massively obese person has a lot of toxins stored in the fat, and as the body is forced to use the fat, the toxins are released…maybe if they could drink a LOT of water they may survive…and then, yeah, would probably greatly outlast a ‘skinny’ person
Welcome to the board, cooky173. Can you provide us with a reference for your statement that there are toxins stored in fat?
Does our scenario exclude cannibalism?
Mmmmmmm. . .Ladyfingers!
B-complex vitamins and vitamin C are water soluble, not stored in the body. Deficiencies in these vitamins can be fatal but I don’t know how long it would take to kill you.
C is the most important one, lack of which will kill you quickest. Unka Cecil estimates that some scurvy sea dogs and pilgrims have held on as long as two years without it. http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_209.html
On a practical basis if you could find a really healthy 750 lb person then they would probably survive longer than someone with smaller fat stores, but in real world terms the vast majority of the time a 750 lb person will tend to have a number of serious health issues that will compromise their ability to live without medical assistance. In starvation mopde the body goes through a lot of stressful metabolic changes and a sick(er) person with delicate health would be at considerable risk.
It would be interesting to see a history of the super obese and see if they even existed before mid 18 century circuses and the fattest man/women freak shows.
My guess is that the fat people can survive much longer. The limiting factor is fuel in form of glucose or ketone bodies. And fatness is exactly a storage of ketone bodies.
This is not going to be a factor. The fat guy will not die from this.
This can take up to 2 years, as Cecil said. They would be dead from starvation before that.
Okay, consider gastric bypass surgery. When people get this done they can literally only eat a couple of OUNCES of food at a time. This is, no matter how you slice it, controlled starvation. Of COURSE really fat people can live longer this way than skinny people, that’s kinda the point.
I’d be surprised if there wasn’t the occasional gluttonous noble who had his servants feed him until he became grotesquely fat.
Well, for one thing, without the proper nutrients to maintain the carbohydrate metabolism the body will go into ketosis, which released toxic byproducts into the bloodstream. This can lead to (but is not synonymous with) ketoacidosis, and can exacerbate the condition in someone who is already overweight and liable to develop Type-II diabetes, hence the need for careful monitoring of high protein diets in weight loss programs.
On a practical basis, there is no such thing as a “healthy 750lb person.” That level of weight and attendent body fat percentage is so extreme that any sort of fasting diet is going to have negative health consequences, not to mention the strain upon regulator mechanisms. In short, it’s a bad, bad, bad idea. Seriously obese people should get a physician’s counsel and oversight before committing to a rapid weight loss plan.
Stranger
No, it’s moderation of nutritional intake, which is entirely different from deliberate fasting or inducing ketosis. People who’ve had gastric bypass surgury (I work with one) follow a careful program of regular small meals or snacks throughout the day to maintain correct glucose balance.
Stranger
I don’t question that it’s unhealthy to be obese. But I still think they can live much longer than normal people without food. The obese guy will be somewhat weaker, but the normal guy will run out of fuel.
The problem is that (in the human metabolism) fat doesn’t make a great fuel on its own. As padding and a reserve source of energy in times of extended moderate exertion (after dietary glucose is consumed) body fat is a necessary part of the human physique. But extremely obese people don’t exist in prehistoric nature; they’re an artifact of civilization and the sedentary lifestlye combined with ready access to high calorie foods. If you’re comparing an obese person to someone with abnormally low body fat, then yes, your statement would ring true. But comparing a healthy (say, 22% body fat) adult male to an obese (>50% body fact) male is going to result in a negative for the obese competitor, notwithstanding other health problems.
Stranger
I still don’t see why the obese guy wouldn’t do better.
I’m not sure what you mean that fat doesn’t make a great fuel. Sure the brain prefers glucose, but it can run on ketone bodies if it needs to.
Yeah I know that obesity didn’t exist in prehistoric times. That doesn’t mean it can’t be an advantage in this hypothetical situation.
I refer you back to post [post=7257764]#13[/post].
Stranger
ok, so you say that the problem is ketoacidosis.
Two points:
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The non-obese guy must get his fuel from ketone bodies as well. There is no other choice. So he will have the exact same problem.
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Sure it seems quite annoying, but will it actually kill you?
True; however, the lower mass person is going to have smaller base calorie requirements (assuming the same level of physical activity) and will inevitably be healthier and better able to withstand the stress of metabolic dysfunction accompanying calorie restriction. The obese person is also more likely to be sensitive to the effects of dehydration.
Sure. Dramatically altering blood acid levels is annoying as a severed artery is to “a little bleeding”. Here’s the Merck entry on diabetic ketoacidosis, which normally only occurs in Type-I diabetes sufferers but can be found in people who have functional or latent Type-II diabetes and who are engaging in a restricted carbohydrate diet.
The notion that extremely heavy people are better able to survive extended periods of famine is just wrong. Unlike some animals (who have evolved to subsist off of subcutaneous fat while in a somnolescent or hibernative state) humans require regular dietary intake of proteins, carbohydrates, and a small amount of nutrients mostly found in animal fats to remain healthy. (Note, vegetarians, that these nutrients can be found in vegetable matter as well, but only by a careful selection of diet.)
Perhaps Qadgop the Mercotan can weigh in on this from a more applied medical point of view, rather than my strictly academic understanding of biochemistry and metabolic science.
Stranger