I was watching Arsenic and Old Lace,released in 1941,on TV the other night. In one scene Cary Grany is wearing a frilly frufruey dress and running around frantically. When the action finally calms his girl asks him why he is wearing it.
In exaspiration he yells, Why didn’t you know? I’ve suddenly gone gay!" Is this the original dialogue? Was it dubbed in more recently?It is difficult to see his lips but from the action it is a short word. It doesn’t look like “Q”.Was the word gay in use then? Enough so that audiences in Peoria would understand?
Gays have been around since the Spartans, but didn’t break into cinema until the film “Gays of Thunder”. Don’t know how long the word’s been used.
Yep, it’s the original dialogue. However, it’s not exactly what you think.
“Gay” has been a word in transition over time. See More of the Straight Dope,, pp. 271-272:
". . .The truth is the word had long had a secondary connotation of sexual licentiousness. As early as 1637 the Oxford English Dictionary gives one meaning as “addicted to social pleasures and dissipations. Often euphemistically: Of loose and immoral life” – whence, presumably, the term ‘gay blade.’ In the 1800s the term was used to refer to female prostitutes; to ‘gay it’ meant ‘to copulate.’
“By 1935 the word ‘geycat,’ meaning a homosexual boy, had found its way into print, giving a clue as to the direction things were starting to go. . . by 1955, ‘gay’ had acquired its present meaning.”
My guess, based on all those double feature matinees I’ve sat through in repertory houses, several years of having A&E and Turner Classic Movies (a wonderful waste of time and a most guilty pleasure), and my extensive knowledge of songs of the era, in popular parlance of 1941, “gay” tended towards lighthearted, fun-seeking, pleasure oriented. Cole Porter writes quite a bit about being “light and gay,” and he wasn’t describing his bantamweight boyfriend. People sang about “when my heart was young and gay,” and no one snickered.
As in “queer?” That’s not a word a homosexual would use to describe himself, not in 1941. Not now, either, except in a political way, where it’s been co-opted to take the sting out of it. (See “Queer Nation.”)
None of the dictionaries I have on hand list when “queer” began to be used as a disparaging term for homosexual (like policemen, there’s never an Oxford Unabridged around when you really need one), but I do not believe it was in popular parlance in 1941.
And now I turn you over to CKDextHavn, our resident Cary Grant expert, who will weigh in on this directly, I’m sure.
your humble TubaDiva
PS: Babar, very funny. You have seen The Man Who Would Be Queen,, right?
your humble TubaDiva
No, it’s not a biography of Freddie Mercury.
Mr John lies: << I was watching Arsenic and Old Lace,released in 1941,on TV the other night. In one scene Cary Grany is wearing a frilly frufruey dress and running around frantically. When the action finally calms his girl asks him why he is wearing it.
In exaspiration he yells, Why didn’t you know? I’ve suddenly gone gay!" >>
Not a chance, Mr John. That scene happens in BRINGING UP BABY (with Grant and Katherine Hepburn), not in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE. And it’s not his girl who asks, it’s her aunt. And his line is “Because I’ve gone GAY all of a sudden,” yelling the word “gay.” He doesn’t say “Why didn’t you know?”
So… what were you really watching? or what had you had to drink or smoke before you started?
hey dex, you’re sitting on your hat.
To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion.
Hey, this fag can and does use Queer to describe himself and others. We find it most useful as a short synonym for “gay+lesbian+bisexual+transgendered+transsexual+intersexual+everybody else in the pride parade”. Its usage is getting less political.
<< hey dex, you’re sitting on your hat >>
That’s not my hat, that hat has two holes cut in it, like for … like for …
I bet Elwood could explain it.
It is my understanding that “gay” is of Victorian origin. At any rate, it is cited in a 1935 slang dictionary, and was used in a novel, The Cluck Abroad, by Tiffany Thayer, in that same year. The earliest public use that I know of (but I am neither a lexicographer nor a specialist in gay studies) is the song: “We All Wore [sic] a Green Carnation” from Noel Coward’s 1929 operette (sic), Bitter Sweet.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
For his pookah? Strange the things you find standing around lamp posts.
To deal with men by force is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion.
My point exactly; it is by such usage that the slings and arrows of outrageous bigotry become transformed into badges of pride and self-esteem.
In such ways are tiny minds and hearts thwarted and defeated.
your humble TubaDiva
Member, Quentin Crisp for Queen Committee
Omigod, John, you read Tiffany Thayer? Isn’t he the MOST? I don’t know why he’s completely forgotten today, he wrote the most entertaining potboilers ever! I urge all members to rush en masse to their used bookstores and look for anything by Tiffany Thayer.
That having been said, I must respectfully disagree with Matt about using “fag,” a hurtful and hateful word no matter who uses it. Some words should not be “legitimized.” Blacks calling each other “nigger” have only made racists more comfortable about using it–polite people never would. By the way, I have never heard Jews say, “hey, kike!” to each other–why is that, I wonder?
If there have been gays that long how come I still can’t get a date 
matt_mcl:
Really? That’s odd – 5 years ago, I was good friends with an intersex person who’d recently changed her legal gender from male to female (in preparation for the sex-reassignment surgery that would make her a Complete Woman [TM]). She only used the term “queer” to refer to homosexuals and bisexuals, which she knew many of. In fact, before she started taking estrogen, she was attracted to women and figured she’d be a lesbian after the surgery – but after the female hormone treatments kicked into high gear, she started to feel herself more and more attracted to men. In that no-man’s-land (pun intended) between changing her legal gender to female and getting the surgery, “she” did not consider herself “queer” while dating men, only while dating women.
I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low.
One Jewish group in the 40’s found a more creative solution, by creating “Sheena, Queen of the Jungle”.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
I doubled over with laughter the first time I read the “Lord of the Rings” trilogy, where to describe burning some sticks it said they “threw some faggots into the fire”. I believe the Brits also use ‘fag’ to mean a cigarette.
When I saw the title of this thread, I was reminded of the following joke, which I saw done on two different sitcoms.
All you need to know is that character A is gay and character B is obviously uncomfortable around homosexuals (and a little stupid).
Character B: You know, back when I was little, we didn’t have homosexuals.
Character A: Oh, no, there have homosexuals all through history, even back to the time of the ancient Greeks. Why, Alexander the Great was gay. Plato was gay. . .
Character B: (obviously mind-boggled by this) Mickey Mouse’s dog was gay?
Character A: (figuring that he might as well play along) Oh, you didn’t know?
Hmmmm, this IS earth right? Well thanx for the answer to my main question. Now There is a scene 12 o’Clock High,where Gary Cooper, as the whistling co-pilot…
While we’re on this tack…Southern Voice, the Atlanta gay weekly newspaper, reports that there is a drive among black persons of homophilic interest (sorry, but I needed to keep the other descriptions for later in the paragraph) to use SGL, abbreviation for “same gender loving”, as their preferred self-description. In their estimation, gay conjures up images of young, cute, hunky white boys and leaves them out, hence the different usage.
I am no longer a virgin!
This is my first post =D
Anyways it seems to me everyones gotten way of topic. I watch truckloads of old movies and when they say gay they don’t mean anything sexual. Anyone ever watch The Flinstones? “We’ll have a gay old time.” That didn’t mean Fred and Barney were gonna get it on. Here’s a selection from The American Heritage Dictionary:
gay (gE) adj. gay•er gay•est 1. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry. 2. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.
I think i’ve said enough!