Abu Graib is about some assholes getting their jollys. I did not intend to defend it and you have no reason to assume I did.
Is that your best shot or do you have problems with other examples of “torture”?
BTW I’m signing off so you will be hearing some crickets, unlike the earlier 12 minute pause.
Let’s continue:
Care to argue against either of those? (Miers, I think, has already been covered, and not to your credit.)
Definitely a high point. It was fun to watch, but I’m a meany anyway 
Shrug, I never much liked Ted anyway. “We” suspected liberals (I still consider myself moderate) aren’t as monolithic or unifed as might seem. But, even if someone isn’t a drunken blowhard, and isn’t “standing up for the poor terrorists” (Murtha for example), they get accused of dastardly treachery and Americahating and Notsupportingthemumblemumblemumble.
Sorry about the disjointed multiposts, it’s been a long and busy day.
:dubious: I’m glad I didn’t pledge your fraternity!
Abu Ghraib is about millions of Arabs and other Muslims who are going to bitterly hate America for at least the next two generations, and not without some justice. That wasn’t the intention, I hope, but that’s very definitely how it worked out.
:rolleyes: Tell us what exactly you are defending (vis-a-vis SteveG1’s list of “Ifs”) and we’ll go from there.
And ABCBSNBCNN were just reporting and speaking truth to power, right?
Go ahead and declare victory (I know you will). I’m not at all interested in “debating” those issues with you … especially since you’ve made my point so nicely.
Here it is: When the issue of what constitutes “torture” or when nasty interrogation techniques might be warranted, people like you bring up Abu Graib. And to top it off, the media haven’t shown you enough pictures of it!!
That’s when people like me get to ask you if you’ve seen enough pictures of the towers burning, or people jumping to their deaths? Did the NYT and CBS show you or let you listen to that poor guy get his head carved off?? Which among all of those images have you seen more often?
So keep pushing! Make Cindy Sheehan the voice of military mothers, let Howard Dean be the voice of the Dem party, give Teddy Kennedy as much floor time as he wants. Whens Michael Moore going to have a new movie out? Can’t wait for those Move-On commercials! Encourage the ACLU to file wire-tapping lawsuits if they have time in between defending NAMBLA perverts. (Sorry but I could really do without NARAL whining whenever their cherished right to abort is threatened even in the slightest). Are you enjoying the “mainstream media” (who love anti-christian art) tap dance around Moslem cartoons? Speak truth to power my ass! When will we see Kanye with a bomb in a turban on the cover of Rolling Stone?
The point I’m making, which ansers the OP and which you aren’t apparently interested in, is that we’ll be able to push right for as long and as far as you folks push left. Keep pushing!
Short version: Libruls are evil.
Long version: Sean Hannity tells me that Libruls are evil.
-Joe
When exactly did the souls of the right become so septic that they were willing to give up freedom, national security, financial solvency, and moral credibility just so long as liberals feel bad?
As opposed to what?
When come back, bring relevance.
Go read post #21 and see if you can figure it out for yourself.
What, chappachula’s post? Nope, still no relevance. Not to any of the “arguments” made in your posts, anyway.
You win; I’m wrong. Keep pushing!! Did you hear that Cindy Sheehan isn’t going to run for Senate? Damn!
Howard Dean keeps pushing …
Move-On !!!
It seems from this post that you are implying that:
the violent nature of the 9/11 attacks justifies the use of torture at Abu Ghraib; and
the more people voice their objection to torture (“push left”), the more it is justified.
Can you please confirm whether I’m reading you correctly? Thanks. Do you think that if one is opposed to torture, they must as a matter of course be politically left-leaning/“pushing left”?
Not at all… I’d be real interested if you re-read my posts to this thread and see if you still think so after I try to explain:
My point was that when the left pushes to the left they make it easy for the right to push right farther and longer.
The example made in this thread was that when “torture” came up very generally… instead of focusing on what constitutes torture as an official policy and when it might be justified, Brainglutton brought up Abu Graib. As I stated AG was about perverts getting their jollies not about official US policy.
Pushing left doestn’t justify anything at all on the right … it just gives us an opportunity to bring up images of 9/11 and other attrocities more often and longer, which was the very question posed in the OP I think.
IOW, you got nuttin’.
Push all you like. We will outlast you. We have time on our side. You don’t.
Well boo hoo.
Abu Ghraib came down to some bored, unsupervised lowlifes who’s acts were universally condemned by America & the West. And all but the most ignorant Arabs know this.
9/11 is about millions of Americans who are going to (and do) bitterly hate muslims for at least the next few generations, and with more than a little justification as 9/11 was a concerted effort by those of the muslim faith to demonstrate their utter hatred for non-muslims. And though it was condemned by some it was and is, even to this very day, still roundly supported and praised by much much more than a tiny majority of the muslim world.
And now they continue to riot and murder over, um, a cartoon.
Great plan guys. Keep it up. Keep showing the world what a tolerant, enlightened, civilized, peaceful people you are and how America & the West is still ‘the great Satan’. You’ve almost got the world convinced… :rolleyes:
Bullfeathers. These were people acting with the knowledge and approval of their superior officers, if not all the way up to the White House. These were not isolated incidents, particularly when viewed in the context of the torture that the US is conducting in Cuba.
And are Americans to hate Christians for the Oklahoma City bombing or the crimes of Nazi Germany? The only Americans that are going to hate Muslims because of the criminal acts of a few are those without a lot of common sense. For every violent Muslim there are probably hundreds of peaceful ones that are as outraged by the violence as the rest of us.
Do you have any polling data to support this?
I won’t defend the violence but I do understand the outrage. You have over a billion people that believe that depicting their prophet is blasphemous.