How many chess moves?

dammit…missed your bit about the bishops…
let’s revise…

16 bishop positions that satisfy your clause
6 king possibilities
5 queen possibilities
6 knight possibilities
1 rook combo

166561 = 2880

Which means, you are correct!

My bad…

Seeing so many 445 and doubting the complete accuracy of my own count, I actually transcribed all the moves possible. And yes, Virginia, there are 445 first-two-moves combinations (not counting possible captures). They are:


Move	First	Second
====    =====   ======
1	Pa2a3	Pa3a4
2	Pa2a3	Pb2b3
3	Pa2a3	Pb2b4
4	Pa2a3	Pc2c3
5	Pa2a3	Pc2c4
6	Pa2a3	Pd2d3
7	Pa2a3	Pd2d4
8	Pa2a3	Pe2e3
9	Pa2a3	Pe2e4
10	Pa2a3	Pf2f3
11	Pa2a3	Pf2f4
12	Pa2a3	Pg2g3
13	Pa2a3	Pg2g4
14	Pa2a3	Ph2h3
15	Pa2a3	Ph2h4
16	Pa2a3	Nb1c3
17	Pa2a3	Ng1f3
18	Pa2a3	Ng1h3
19	Pa2a3	Ra1a2
20	Pb2b3	Pa2a3
21	Pb2b3	Pa2a4
22	Pb2b3	Pb3b4
23	Pb2b3	Pc2c3
24	Pb2b3	Pc2c4
25	Pb2b3	Pd2d3
26	Pb2b3	Pd2d4
27	Pb2b3	Pe2e3
28	Pb2b3	Pe2e4
29	Pb2b3	Pf2f3
30	Pb2b3	Pf2f4
31	Pb2b3	Pg2g3
32	Pb2b3	Pg2g4
33	Pb2b3	Ph2h3
34	Pb2b3	Ph2h4
35	Pb2b3	Nb1a3
36	Pb2b3	Nb1c3
37	Pb2b3	Ng1f3
38	Pb2b3	Ng1h3
39	Pb2b3	Bc1b2
40	Pb2b3	Bc1a3
41	Pc2c3	Pa2a3
42	Pc2c3	Pa2a4
43	Pc2c3	Pb2b3
44	Pc2c3	Pb2b4
45	Pc2c3	Pc3c4
46	Pc2c3	Pd2d3
47	Pc2c3	Pd2d4
48	Pc2c3	Pe2e3
49	Pc2c3	Pe2e4
50	Pc2c3	Pf2f3
51	Pc2c3	Pf2f4
52	Pc2c3	Pg2g3
53	Pc2c3	Pg2g4
54	Pc2c3	Ph2h3
55	Pc2c3	Ph2h4
56	Pc2c3	Nb1a3
57	Pc2c3	Ng1f3
58	Pc2c3	Ng1h3
59	Pc2c3	Kd1c2
60	Pd2d3	Pa2a3
61	Pd2d3	Pa2a4
62	Pd2d3	Pb2b3
63	Pd2d3	Pb2b4
64	Pd2d3	Pc2c3
65	Pd2d3	Pc2c4
66	Pd2d3	Pd3d4
67	Pd2d3	Pe2e3
68	Pd2d3	Pe2e4
69	Pd2d3	Pf2f3
70	Pd2d3	Pf2f4
71	Pd2d3	Pg2g3
72	Pd2d3	Pg2g4
73	Pd2d3	Ph2h3
74	Pd2d3	Ph2h4
75	Pd2d3	Nb1a3
76	Pd2d3	Nb1c3
77	Pd2d3	Nb1d2
78	Pd2d3	Ng1f3
79	Pd2d3	Ng1h3
80	Pd2d3	Kd1d2
81	Pd2d3	Qe1d2
82	Pd2d3	Qe1c3
83	Pd2d3	Qe1b4
84	Pd2d3	Qe1a5
85	Pd2d3	Bc1d2
86	Pd2d3	Bc1e3
87	Pd2d3	Bc1f4
88	Pd2d3	Bc1g5
89	Pd2d3	Bc1h6
90	Pe2e3	Pa2a3
91	Pe2e3	Pa2a4
92	Pe2e3	Pb2b3
93	Pe2e3	Pb2b4
94	Pe2e3	Pc2c3
95	Pe2e3	Pc2c4
96	Pe2e3	Pd2d3
97	Pe2e3	Pd2d4
98	Pe2e3	Pe3e4
99	Pe2e3	Pf2f3
100	Pe2e3	Pf2f4
101	Pe2e3	Pg2g3
102	Pe2e3	Pg2g4
103	Pe2e3	Ph2h3
104	Pe2e3	Ph2h4
105	Pe2e3	Nb1a3
106	Pe2e3	Nb1c3
107	Pe2e3	Ng1e2
108	Pe2e3	Ng1f3
109	Pe2e3	Ng1h3
110	Pe2e3	Kd1e2
111	Pe2e3	Qe1e2
112	Pe2e3	Bf1e2
113	Pe2e3	Bf1d3
114	Pe2e3	Bf1c4
115	Pe2e3	Bf1b5
116	Pe2e3	Bf1a6
117	Pf2f3	Pa2a3
118	Pf2f3	Pa2a4
119	Pf2f3	Pb2b3
120	Pf2f3	Pb2b4
121	Pf2f3	Pc2c3
122	Pf2f3	Pc2c4
123	Pf2f3	Pd2d3
124	Pf2f3	Pd2d4
125	Pf2f3	Pe2e3
126	Pf2f3	Pe2e4
127	Pf2f3	Pf3f4
128	Pf2f3	Pg2g3
129	Pf2f3	Pg2g4
130	Pf2f3	Ph2h3
131	Pf2f3	Ph2h4
132	Pf2f3	Nb1a3
133	Pf2f3	Nb1c3
134	Pf2f3	Ng1h3
135	Pf2f3	Qe1f2
136	Pf2f3	Qe1g3
137	Pf2f3	Qe1h4
138	Pg2g3	Pa2a3
139	Pg2g3	Pa2a4
140	Pg2g3	Pb2b3
141	Pg2g3	Pb2b4
142	Pg2g3	Pc2c3
143	Pg2g3	Pc2c4
144	Pg2g3	Pd2d3
145	Pg2g3	Pd2d4
146	Pg2g3	Pe2e3
147	Pg2g3	Pe2e4
148	Pg2g3	Pf2f3
149	Pg2g3	Pf2f4
150	Pg2g3	Pg3g4
151	Pg2g3	Ph2h3
152	Pg2g3	Ph2h4
153	Pg2g3	Nb1a3
154	Pg2g3	Nb1c3
155	Pg2g3	Ng1f3
156	Pg2g3	Ng1h3
157	Pg2g3	Bf1g2
158	Pg2g3	Bf1h3
159	Ph2h3	Pa2a3
160	Ph2h3	Pa2a4
161	Ph2h3	Pb2b3
162	Ph2h3	Pb2b4
163	Ph2h3	Pc2c3
164	Ph2h3	Pc2c4
165	Ph2h3	Pd2d3
166	Ph2h3	Pd2d4
167	Ph2h3	Pe2e3
168	Ph2h3	Pe2e4
169	Ph2h3	Pf2f3
170	Ph2h3	Pf2f4
171	Ph2h3	Pg2g3
172	Ph2h3	Pg2g4
173	Ph2h3	Ph3h4
174	Ph2h3	Nb1a3
175	Ph2h3	Nb1c3
176	Ph2h3	Ng1f3
177	Ph2h3	Rh1h2
178	Pa2a4	Pa4a5
179	Pa2a4	Pb2b3
180	Pa2a4	Pb2b4
181	Pa2a4	Pc2c3
182	Pa2a4	Pc2c4
183	Pa2a4	Pd2d3
184	Pa2a4	Pd2d4
185	Pa2a4	Pe2e3
186	Pa2a4	Pe2e4
187	Pa2a4	Pf2f3
188	Pa2a4	Pf2f4
189	Pa2a4	Pg2g3
190	Pa2a4	Pg2g4
191	Pa2a4	Ph2h3
192	Pa2a4	Ph2h4
193	Pa2a4	Nb1a3
194	Pa2a4	Nb1c3
195	Pa2a4	Ng1f3
196	Pa2a4	Ng1h3
197	Pa2a4	Ra1a2
198	Pa2a4	Ra1a3
199	Pb2b4	Pa2a3
200	Pb2b4	Pa2a4
201	Pb2b4	Pb4b5
202	Pb2b4	Pc2c3
203	Pb2b4	Pc2c4
204	Pb2b4	Pd2d3
205	Pb2b4	Pd2d4
206	Pb2b4	Pe2e3
207	Pb2b4	Pe2e4
208	Pb2b4	Pf2f3
209	Pb2b4	Pf2f4
210	Pb2b4	Pg2g3
211	Pb2b4	Pg2g4
212	Pb2b4	Ph2h3
213	Pb2b4	Ph2h4
214	Pb2b4	Nb1a3
215	Pb2b4	Nb1c3
216	Pb2b4	Ng1f3
217	Pb2b4	Ng1h3
218	Pb2b4	Bc1b2
219	Pb2b4	Bc1a3
220	Pc2c4	Pa2a3
221	Pc2c4	Pa2a4
222	Pc2c4	Pb2b3
223	Pc2c4	Pb2b4
224	Pc2c4	Pc4c5
225	Pc2c4	Pd2d3
226	Pc2c4	Pd2d4
227	Pc2c4	Pe2e3
228	Pc2c4	Pe2e4
229	Pc2c4	Pf2f3
230	Pc2c4	Pf2f4
231	Pc2c4	Pg2g3
232	Pc2c4	Pg2g4
233	Pc2c4	Ph2h3
234	Pc2c4	Ph2h4
235	Pc2c4	Nb1a3
236	Pc2c4	Nb1c3
237	Pc2c4	Ng1f3
238	Pc2c4	Ng1h3
239	Pc2c4	Kd1c2
240	Pd2d4	Pa2a3
241	Pd2d4	Pa2a4
242	Pd2d4	Pb2b3
243	Pd2d4	Pb2b4
244	Pd2d4	Pc2c3
245	Pd2d4	Pc2c4
246	Pd2d4	Pd4d5
247	Pd2d4	Pe2e3
248	Pd2d4	Pe2e4
249	Pd2d4	Pf2f3
250	Pd2d4	Pf2f4
251	Pd2d4	Pg2g3
252	Pd2d4	Pg2g4
253	Pd2d4	Ph2h3
254	Pd2d4	Ph2h4
255	Pd2d4	Nb1a3
256	Pd2d4	Nb1c3
257	Pd2d4	Nb1d2
258	Pd2d4	Ng1f3
259	Pd2d4	Ng1h3
260	Pd2d4	Kd1d2
261	Pd2d4	Qe1d2
262	Pd2d4	Qe1c3
263	Pd2d4	Qe1b4
264	Pd2d4	Qe1a5
265	Pd2d4	Bc1d2
266	Pd2d4	Bc1e3
267	Pd2d4	Bc1f4
268	Pd2d4	Bc1g5
269	Pd2d4	Bc1h6
270	Pe2e4	Pa2a3
271	Pe2e4	Pa2a4
272	Pe2e4	Pb2b3
273	Pe2e4	Pb2b4
274	Pe2e4	Pc2c3
275	Pe2e4	Pc2c4
276	Pe2e4	Pd2d3
277	Pe2e4	Pd2d4
278	Pe2e4	Pe4e5
279	Pe2e4	Pf2f3
280	Pe2e4	Pf2f4
281	Pe2e4	Pg2g3
282	Pe2e4	Pg2g4
283	Pe2e4	Ph2h3
284	Pe2e4	Ph2h4
285	Pe2e4	Nb1a3
286	Pe2e4	Nb1c3
287	Pe2e4	Ng1e2
288	Pe2e4	Ng1f3
289	Pe2e4	Ng1h3
290	Pe2e4	Kd1e2
291	Pe2e4	Qe1e2
292	Pe2e4	Qe1e3
293	Pe2e4	Bf1e2
294	Pe2e4	Bf1d3
295	Pe2e4	Bf1c4
296	Pe2e4	Bf1b5
297	Pe2e4	Bf1a6
298	Pf2f4	Pa2a3
299	Pf2f4	Pa2a4
300	Pf2f4	Pb2b3
301	Pf2f4	Pb2b4
302	Pf2f4	Pc2c3
303	Pf2f4	Pc2c4
304	Pf2f4	Pd2d3
305	Pf2f4	Pd2d4
306	Pf2f4	Pe2e3
307	Pf2f4	Pe2e4
308	Pf2f4	Pf4f5
309	Pf2f4	Pg2g3
310	Pf2f4	Pg2g4
311	Pf2f4	Ph2h3
312	Pf2f4	Ph2h4
313	Pf2f4	Nb1a3
314	Pf2f4	Nb1c3
315	Pf2f4	Ng1f3
316	Pf2f4	Ng1h3
317	Pf2f4	Qe1f2
318	Pf2f4	Qe1g3
319	Pf2f4	Qe1h4
320	Pg2g4	Pa2a3
321	Pg2g4	Pa2a4
322	Pg2g4	Pb2b3
323	Pg2g4	Pb2b4
324	Pg2g4	Pc2c3
325	Pg2g4	Pc2c4
326	Pg2g4	Pd2d3
327	Pg2g4	Pd2d4
328	Pg2g4	Pe2e3
329	Pg2g4	Pe2e4
330	Pg2g4	Pf2f3
331	Pg2g4	Pf2f4
332	Pg2g4	Pg3g4
333	Pg2g4	Ph2h3
334	Pg2g4	Ph2h4
335	Pg2g4	Nb1a3
336	Pg2g4	Nb1c3
337	Pg2g4	Ng1f3
338	Pg2g4	Ng1h3
339	Pg2g4	Bf1g2
340	Pg2g4	Bf1h3
341	Ph2h4	Pa2a3
342	Ph2h4	Pa2a4
343	Ph2h4	Pb2b3
344	Ph2h4	Pb2b4
345	Ph2h4	Pc2c3
346	Ph2h4	Pc2c4
347	Ph2h4	Pd2d3
348	Ph2h4	Pd2d4
349	Ph2h4	Pe2e3
350	Ph2h4	Pe2e4
351	Ph2h4	Pf2f3
352	Ph2h4	Pf2f4
353	Ph2h4	Pg2g3
354	Ph2h4	Pg2g4
355	Ph2h4	Ph4h5
356	Ph2h4	Nb1a3
357	Ph2h4	Nb1c3
358	Ph2h4	Ng1f3
359	Ph2h4	Ng1h3
360	Ph2h4	Rh1h2
361	Ph2h4	Rh1h3
362	Nb1a3	Na3b5
363	Nb1a3	Na3c4
364	Nb1a3	Na3b1
365	Nb1a3	Ng1f3
366	Nb1a3	Ng1h3
367	Nb1a3	Pb2b3
368	Nb1a3	Pb2b4
369	Nb1a3	Pc2c3
370	Nb1a3	Pc2c4
371	Nb1a3	Pd2d3
372	Nb1a3	Pd2d4
373	Nb1a3	Pe2e3
374	Nb1a3	Pe2e4
375	Nb1a3	Pf2f3
376	Nb1a3	Pf2f4
377	Nb1a3	Pg2g3
378	Nb1a3	Pg2g4
379	Nb1a3	Ph2h3
380	Nb1a3	Ph2h4
381	Nb1a3	Ra1b1
382	Nb1c3	Nc3b1
383	Nb1c3	Nc3a4
384	Nb1c3	Nc3b5
385	Nb1c3	Nc3d5
386	Nb1c3	Nc3e4
387	Nb1c3	Ng1f3
388	Nb1c3	Ng1h3
389	Nb1c3	Pa2a3
390	Nb1c3	Pa2a4
391	Nb1c3	Pb2b3
392	Nb1c3	Pb2b4
393	Nb1c3	Pd2d3
394	Nb1c3	Pd2d4
395	Nb1c3	Pe2e3
396	Nb1c3	Pe2e4
397	Nb1c3	Pf2f3
398	Nb1c3	Pf2f4
399	Nb1c3	Pg2g3
400	Nb1c3	Pg2g4
401	Nb1c3	Ph2h3
402	Nb1c3	Ph2h4
403	Nb1c3	Ra1b1
404	Ng1f3	Nf3d4
405	Ng1f3	Nf3e5
406	Ng1f3	Nf3g5
407	Ng1f3	Nf3h4
408	Ng1f3	Nf3g1
409	Ng1f3	Nb1a3
410	Ng1f3	Nb1c3
411	Ng1f3	Pa2a3
412	Ng1f3	Pa2a4
413	Ng1f3	Pb2b3
414	Ng1f3	Pb2b4
415	Ng1f3	Pc2c3
416	Ng1f3	Pc2c4
417	Ng1f3	Pd2d3
418	Ng1f3	Pd2d4
419	Ng1f3	Pe2e3
420	Ng1f3	Pe2e4
421	Ng1f3	Pg2g3
422	Ng1f3	Pg2g4
423	Ng1f3	Ph2h3
424	Ng1f3	Ph2h4
425	Ng1f3	Rh1g1
426	Ng1h3	Nh3g5
427	Ng1h3	Nh3f4
428	Ng1h3	Nh3g1
429	Ng1h3	Nb1a3
430	Ng1h3	Nb1c3
431	Ng1h3	Pa2a3
432	Ng1h3	Pa2a4
433	Ng1h3	Pb2b3
434	Ng1h3	Pb2b4
435	Ng1h3	Pc2c3
436	Ng1h3	Pc2c4
437	Ng1h3	Pd2d3
438	Ng1h3	Pd2d4
439	Ng1h3	Pe2e3
440	Ng1h3	Pe2e4
441	Ng1h3	Pf2f3
442	Ng1h3	Pf2f4
443	Ng1h3	Pg2g3
444	Ng1h3	Pg2g4
445	Ng1h3	Rh1g1

After that last tour de force by AWB, I have to agree with the above! :wink:

I think I follow all of this except one small point. Discounting captures. Why discount captures?

Just who is this wizard of the sixty-four square madhouse that you are playing where you have to discount his captures? In order to affect your arithmetic the black piece must capture white’s piece on his first move! No one is that good.

There are a limited number of black’s first move positions which leave you options to capture. These should be added to your total. Fourteen of black’s first moves after eight specific first pawn moves by white allow white to make second move pawn captures, plus the six variations which allow you captures on your second knight moves, (thus being different positions). Twenty additional first two moves by white.

Tris

I can understand the captures by pawns, since that results in piece movements different than what we’ve already reviewed.

But the moves that include captures by knights have already been accounted for–in your case they capture a pawn, but the two moves are the same. Also, why add captures by knights, but not by bishops? And is a bishop capturing a pawn different than it capturing a knight? (Although I wouldn’t count captures by bishops either–these moves have also already been accounted for)

Confused in Cary.

Great list, AWB! Thanks!

Tris, I think the conditions were set forth in the OP, i.e., White making two consecutive moves.


Interestingly, there is a story about Paul Morphy, the first American world champion, who was willing to give almost any odds to almost anyone. He would take his queen off the board and play against the strongest players in the world. But once, a patzer wanted to play him, but instead of any sort of material odds, he wanted something else. “Keep all your pieces,” he told Morphy, “but let me have two consecutive moves at any one time of my choice.”

Morphy instantly and adamantly refused.

Let’s find out.

One…
A-two-hoo…
Three…
<CRUNCH>
… three.

Yeah, you’re right. I forgot about the bishops entirely. and one queen move, too. OK, those moves are accounted for, and the difference in chess position are not being considered. So, there are only the 14 new moves to be added.

Libertarian said:

I’ll be charitable and say I find this statement exaggerated.

Morphy at the height of his powers could probably have given pawn and move to any other top master and still prevailed in a match; indeed, he did just that against Owen, in 1856 I think. But to imagine Morphy could routinely give Q odds overstates not only his abilities, fabulous as they were, but denigrates the talents of other players. A rough equivalent would be to suggest Tiger Woods could beat the Singhs and Duvals of the world using only his driver and putter.

It’s true Morphy played many games at odds. Here he wins at age 12 giving rook odds. Often he played without his queen knight. But these were casual games against vastly inferior players, easy going encounters over drinks and cigars, not nerve wracking encounters with the world’s best.

Wow! Thanks all. Now the next time I “count sheep” I’ll know where to stop. :slight_smile: And I’ll sleep soundly knowing that if chess games are played for the next hundred thousand years, mankind will never come close to exhausting all the possibilities. 25 X 10[sup]115[/sup]. Wow.

-b

I’ll second this statement. Morphy couldn’t give queen’s odds against the best players in his day and win consistently.

Personally, I’m not even rated, have played in one tournament in 7th grade, am extremely out of practice, and yet I don’t believe there’s a player on earth who could give me queens odds every game and beat me in a match. (I’d look to trade pieces at every opportunity and win by attrition)

So…how come we can get so many responses to a thread like this, yet every SDMB group chess thread dies a quick yet ignoble death? :confused:

Because, darn it, we need chess cheerleaders!

“Queen that pawn! Queen that pawn! Yaaaaaaaay white!!”