It is a common understanding that the books of the “Old Testament” are not “Christian Scripture”, as such.
That’s going to be news to a hell of a lot of Christians I know. Like, all of them.
Common understanding by who?
Christians regard both the Old and New Testaments together as sacred scripture.
And a few words about the old “it’s just the Old Testament” cop-out.
The fact is that both parts of the Bible are integral to Christianity, the first part laying out the Word of God as fundamental Law in both Christianity and Judaism, and the second part an account of the life of Jesus as the embodiment of that same God.
And neither is the New Testament free of violence, either, it just doesn’t talk about violence for transgressions of God’s Law which is the business of the Old Testament, but rather in terms of prophesies of terrible but justified violence on the occasion of the Second Coming. As this article nicely puts it, Jesus loves his enemies, so he’s going to come back and kill them all:
Just as Muhammad’s biography can be divided into a Meccan and Medinan period, so too can Jesus’s lifestory be divided into a First and Second Coming. (Likewise can Moses’ lifestory be divided into pre- and post-Exodus: prior to Exodus, Moses was largely peaceful, but after Exodus, Moses became the leader of the emerging Jewish state–and subsequently engaged in holy wars and even genocide against other nations.) In the First Coming of Christ, only a small segment of society (mostly from the weak and poor) accepted Jesus, whereas the leaders and authorities persecuted him. During this time period, Jesus advised his followers to engage in nonviolent resistance only, perhaps even pacifism. Jesus advised his followers to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” According to the Bible, this didn’t stop his Jewish and Roman persecutors from crucifying him.
Yet, the Second Coming of Christ is a central theological belief of Christianity. When Jesus returns to earth, the gloves will be off: no longer will he practice nonviolence or pacifism. Enemies will be mercilessly killed, not loved. In this manner, Jesus will fulfill the messianic prophecies found in the Bible–both in the Old and New Testaments. To Christians, Jesus is the Messiah (the Greek word “Christ” has the same meaning as the Hebrew word “Messiah”)–the same Messiah that the Jews had been in anticipation of.
One can find some choice examples of these ideas in the New Testament such as the following:
Revelations 19:11-16: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Psalm 137:8-9: O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. [Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.] Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. [Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against a rock.]
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Is this the right thread for denouncing Sharia Law? I’m not a religious scholar, but isn’t one feature of Sharia Law treating female rape victims as sinners or criminals? I disapprove.
Here’s a story about that already happening here in the U.S.A.:
As a say, I’m not a religious scholar. Is this “Mormon” church one of the Shi’ite sects or one of the Sunni sects? Either way, for once I agree with the Trumpists — we don’t need these assholes in the U.S.A.
Slacker, I think a couple of people quoted in this article had some words for you. Let’s see, there’s George W. Bush, speaking in 2002:
Then there’s Barack Obama:
Care to make a comment that’s not bigoted?
I don’t really understand how intellectually curious adults can be so dumbass parochial as the OP here. It’s like he’s only engaged with a wafer-sized slice of the population his entire life.
It’s just so heavy with preconceived, hokey prejudices. Maybe mixed with a little stirred up fear.
:rolleyes: Care to stop beating your wife?
My other devout Christian friend got back to me on the question of whether Muslims and Christians worship the same god. His answer surprised me a bit, but in the spirit of intellectual honesty I shall reproduce it in full nonetheless, with his name changed to Joe Smith, mine to Mike Jones, and my eldest children’s to John and Jane:
Most, if not all, Muslims regard the shared divinity of Jesus as blasphemous. The honor or Prophet is as high as they will go, an honor shared by Mohammed, Abraham, and Jesus. It is, however, entirely explicit that Muslims regard the Deity of Abraham, Jesus, and Mohammed as precisely the same.
And because Muslims hold Jesus in similar high regard as Mohammed, they reject the very idea of the Crucifixion, on the grounds that God would not permit His prophet to be so treated.
You raise disingenuity to an art form. Kindergarten art, to be sure, but still art.
“Joe Smith”, huh? Quaint. You are truly a jackass, in addition to being a bigot. I forgot if anyone’s called you a Nazi yet, you know, what with your ballyhooing concentration camps and the like, your protests that you’re not doing so notwithstanding.
I almost forgot to mention something important: Your “friend” is full of it. Not all Christians are Trinitarians.
It’s almost like it’s a religion with him.
For the win! I’d have to say you’re correct. Apparently he only has two “devout Christian friends” so that’s pretty surprising given the size of the Christian population in non-Muslim majority, non-Buddhist majority, non-Hindu majority countries.
“Prejudice comes from fear, fear comes from ignorance; therefore, prejudice is the end result of ignorance.” I’ve no idea who told me that years ago. Still rings true. Unlike the OP’s BS.
Like Judaism, mainstream Islam holds that God is unitary, single, One.
IIRC, the Islamic view of the Crucifixion is the same (or nearly the same) as the old Gnostic Christian view. IOW, Jesus was put on the Cross but did not die there.
All it takes to be a real serious Christian scholar is a thorough grounding in Hebrew, Greek, Latin and some German. Also, a couple of lifetimes. That area of the library at Major University should be gated and locked, with a sign that reads “No. Really, don’t do it. This way lies Madness…”
And any bright young scholar who thinks to research and write the definitive work on Gnostic Christianity should be compelled to take a year off school before beginning. Just hang out, think it over…
Actually, we used to. But same as there are more subtle techniques to treat cancer now than just a few decades ago, there is also some people who have realized that things like torturing people and blanket bombings aren’t the best way to make converts. Others are still hellbent on those as marketing techniques.
“We have too many enemies, let’s kill some!”
“And then what?”
“Then, their wives, sons, daughters, brothers…they’ll all see that we are their friends, and they will love us!”
“Gee, I dunno…”
Hmmm…Here is what a very devout Christian really has to say about Islam:
Isn’t that guy a known robe-wearing hippie socialist?
And you can’t compare the Pope to our illustrious OP. I’m pretty sure the Pope would never bet anyone $20 that he was a member of the Triple-Nine Society. Just trust me on this, I’m pretty sure that the Pope just wouldn’t.
Which leaves the competition with regard to religious opinions lined up as follows:
[ul]
[li]OP: Member of Triple-Nine Society, willing to make $20 bet[/li][/ul]
[ul]
[li]Pope Francis: Is the Pope. Does not offer bets.[/li][/ul]
Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote it better. Sayeth King George:
… You’ll be back, time will tell
You’ll remember that I served you well
Oceans rise, empires fall
We have seen each other through it all
And when push comes to shove
I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love!
…
And I’ll love you till my dying days
When you’re gone, I’ll go mad
So don’t throw away this thing we had
Cuz when push comes to shove
I will kill your friends and family to remind you of my love …
He also said the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists had it coming. Fuck that guy.
That is not what he said, but I would never expect you to be aware of what he did say.