I was a Luxman fan too. Replaced my Dynaco separates (tuner/pre/power) with a Luxman tuner and integrated app in the late 80’s. Loved them all.
Now they are all in the closet - switched to AV Receivers because I wanted surround sound.
Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Again, a microphone can’t measure what I hear. The best sounding amplifiers often have horrible distortion numbers yet they are able to reproduce very subtle nuances in music. If it was nothing but making numbers match up there would be one perfect speaker on the market and that would be that.
I think I agree with you Magiver. Music is complex and appreciated in a subjective way. The interplay between different aspects of the sound can have a profound affect on the listener, or it may affect them very hardly at all. Yes you can measure how accurately a piece of equipment reproduces sound, but given that all equipment will introduce some distortion, can you measure whether that distortion is of a kind that will negatively affect the listeners appreciation of the music and by how much?
Well I’m back after a few years. I see some people just can’t accept that machines are not as perfect as they would like them to be. He TOTALLY missed the fact that I have been the sound engineer for successful recordings. I guess that part goes out the window when your bowing to the holy grail of measurements. Why he thinks equipment is so perfect it can measure everything is way beyond me. I KNOW that it can’t.
I’ll say it again. This “it has to be engineered perfect by the way I say” attitude has drive the audio industry into extinction. No one buys that expensive stuff. I still have never met one single person that has spent their hard earned money on a set of $10k speakers. Well maybe a drug dealer I met once. I didn’t stay long because I was scared to death to be there.
If you can’t hear it, what’s the freaking point? It’s as simple as that. And I don’t bow to the holy oscilloscope either. Audio is FAR more complex than any machine can decipher. If it wasn’t we would all have perfect speakers. But gee I’ve never seen a set of perfect speakers yet.
All I do is create the sound that Mr. Genius tries so hard to re-create. Earth to Genius. It wasn’t created by the stuff you worship. But you think that’s the only way to recreate it. The sad truth is that much of audio is serendipity. I listen to the Beatles on modern equipment (and by modern I mean stuff built after the mid-70’s) and I hear things that weren’t possible to hear when the Beatles were hot because NO ONE had systems that would recreate that sound. And it sounds different on different speakers. I’ve been to audiophile type stores. I’ve listened to their stuff. The funny thing was that it all sounded different from the other stuff. Why is that if simple measurements make it so perfect? Are people too cheap to measure it? Are $2000 speakers just not good enough and why do the $5000 speakers sound better? I bet I could build a decent speaker for $2000 a pop. The plain fact is that PT Barnum’s disciples took over the audio equipment industry.
So once again Genius. I CREATE the stuff you work so hard to recreate. And you don’t get it right even with your holy measurements. CD’s, concert videos, other live events - I’ve recorded that stuff and done quite well at it. So you’re arguing with the people who you’re trying to emulate. BTW I have a connection to a little place called Electric Lady with people stopping by named Mick and with the same engineer named Eddie that’s been there since sound was revolutionized. I guess you know more about this stuff than Mr. Kramer. You see I have a clue how he does things. And he created much of the modern sound of music. My niece worked for him for quite a while. Ain’t it funny who you meet on the net. I guess you know more about sound than the guy who invented modern audio and he did it with his ears Genius. I’ve seen video of him explaining exactly how he created that sound for that guy - what was his name - Jimi something.
Just so you know how modern music got it’s start (and it did start with Hendrix and Kramer) you may want to watch this little video of Kramer explaining how they did it. See if you can hear one word about measuring anything.
No, he just didn’t bother with an unverifiable claim made by some guy on the Internet.
This is the funniest post I’ve read in a long, long time.
mmm
And when you die they can bury you in it!
Wow! A zombie thread that really piques my interest.
Being an audiophile is a hobby, and part of the fun is disagreeing about how you get good sound…or whether you really CAN get good sound.
I don’t consider my systems to be state of the art, but they are definitely labors of love. I was able to get some good deals, make some mods, optimize my listening areas, and so forth, but it takes years. My main system uses Yamaha front-ends, Adcom power amps, Magnepan passive crossovers, Magnepan speakers, and M&K subwoofers (two). Sources range from a Roku media player to various VCRs to a Sony LD player.
BUT…my hearing has deteriorated significantly and I have been trying to get rid of my systems and components for a couple years. My nephew started college a couple years ago and I could not even GIVE him what would be considered a great system for his dorm room. He didn’t want the 42" Sony flatscreen TV, the Yamaha receiver, power amp, Martin-Logan sub, DefTech speakers, and so forth. As others have said, this just isn’t the way younger people listen to (and share) music/media now.
In fact, one of my other challenges is to find apps and music servers that play digital music files the way I want to play them. The trend for several years has been to compose playlists. My music collection on my server has over 28,000 separate files/songs organized in folders by artist. album, and then track number. Being an old fart, I expect to listen to an entire album/side at a time. It’s surprising how many apps/players won’t do this.
Can’t say that I BLAME younger people for this problem, but it’s clear that their listening habits, along with marketing, have changed the landscape significantly.
Finally…I only infrequently find younger people who actually appreciate good stereo sound reproduction in a room environment. They can hear the difference when exposed to a good system, but they don’t think it’s worth the effort or inconvenience to have it.
Welcome to the Dope, Neil Young.
mmm
I went from just listening through a crappy Bluetooth speaker to a nice Sonos WiFi set up. I have a pair of their best speakers (gen 2 Play:5) and a subwoofer. It has made a huge difference and I listen to way more music at home now. Audiophiles would probably consider this to be very good at best. The whole thing would be $1700 retail (but I got a nice discount though a connection).
Going from very good to very great wouldn’t be worth it. I doubt that I could hear the difference considering the music that I generally play which is live concerts, either recordings or audience streams. I rarely listen to studio stuff.
ca 1969 I bought Sony STR6045 receiver, TC-377 tape deck (open reel), some turntable and second-shelf quality speakers.
The turntable and speakers got replaced several times over the years.
I replaced the belts on the tape deck and then put it back in its (original) box ten years ago.
My TV is a flat screen CRT 21" - the largest I could still carry upstairs at the time.
I have never had cable - which used to be (see ID) WAY behind times, now cutting edge.
I still have a tiny video monitor. Threw out the VHS duplicating decks. Still have 3 consumer-grade VCRs (including a 1985 “attaboy” award from GE).
No, I don’t watch any form of video.
For those with large black panels on their walls - don’'t those look incredibly gross when turned off? I can’t imagine having such a thing unless you have a dedicated room for it where you can close it out of your lives when not in use…
I just have my computer speakers, and all the music I listen to is streamed online. Logitech S-220
My state of the art system is a vintage 1968 Voice of Music console unit with tape deck and FM radio!!
It is such a nice piece of furniture we still have it in the living room. I don’t even know if it still works it has not been plugged in for 25 years.
I have an Adcom amp, Adcom tuner/preamp, Sony CD player, and Ohm 2XO speakers. Still sounds great after 25 years. I did hook up a Bose Bluetooth adapter to it, and it showed just how much Bluetooth sucks for music (or maybe how much the Bose adapter sucks). However, streaming 320kbps with my phone though the 3.5mm jack with an RCA adapter sounds pretty damn good.
In terms of value for money I’m a big fan of studio monitors. I have a set of KRK Rokit 5 speakers, they sound pretty damn good and cost around $280 and have built in amps. You can go up to the rokit 8s for around $600 a pair. They sound damn good, very clean and I think for most people they would be hard pressed to tell the difference between these and a $5000 system.
That line “most people would have difficulty telling the difference” should be engraved over every damned “Listening Room” in every damned “Audiophile Specialist” store on the planet.
See: “Monster Cables” $30 for a piece of 16 AWG wire with ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh - GOLD plated RCA jacks.
I have better quality speaker wire I bought in a surplus shop for $8/100’ reel.
10 years ago. Still have some.
Yep, that’s why I like studio monitors. They are designed to give the cleanest sound in professional environments but don’t have the bulkshit audiophile stuff attached so they are generally pretty reasonably priced.
I still have my vintage 1975 Technics SL-1300 turntable with Shure V15 Type III cartridge. Works perfectly.
Isn’t that a line from Ruthless People?
–oh yeah, the Dominator X-10!