Take away the cartel price fixing by De Beers, etc etc, and take away the hype and marketing, and how much is a diamond actually worth?
I mean how rare is a particuarly good one anyway?
Should they really be around the same price as a ruby? Or a sapphire? Or an amethyst? Or just a piece of quartz?
I know they other gems get their prices bumped up too, but I’m trying to get a comparitive idea of this. Gold prices, for example, go up and down depending on supply and demand. But gold isn’t cached to artifically hike its value, like oil and diamonds. (Or is it?)
Take a deep breath, and think about this. What is it that you really want to know. Diamonds - like everything else -are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them.
The same diamond will be worth less when selling it to a retailer, and more when buying it from a retailer.
Take away all the hype and marketing, how much is Coca-Cola really worth? Should it be the same price as Pepsi? Milk? Water? Scotch?
I pondered this question a bit, thinking in terms of “manufacturing costs”, i.e., how much to dig them up. Then I hit A Big Problem. Since diamond prices are artificially high, there are a lot of diamond producers that would go out of business in a flash if Russia dumped its diamond reserves on the market. So there must be a sliding scale. Some diamonds are mined at conceivably 10% of their wholesale value. Some might be mined closer to 80%.
Overall very hard to predict. My WAG: if the deBeers cartel folded, diamond prices would fall to a third of their current retail level. As long as the Russians play the game, and don’t suddenly need a big pile of cash, deBeers is safe.
Assuming the suckers, er, I mean “customers”, don’t wise up.
BTW, Keeve’s point doesn’t work if there’s a single cartel controlling over 90% of the market.
No, I understand this. But diamond as a substance is still rarer than quartz, for example. Like gold is rarer than iron. I just wondered how rare, and therefore what other gem/substance it should really be comparable to.
Sorry ftg! I replied to the earlier post just seconds after you must have posted, and missed your answer!
I wish Russia would dump its diamond reserves. Because I really want some diamond earrings. I don’t care about the hype, or the whole image thing, I wouldn’t care if they were as cheap or as commonplace as glass.
It’s just they are sparklier, given their carbon structure/properties/whatever, and would look nicer than glass/quartz/imitation “diamante.”
If people are paying what the cartel wants, doesn’t that establish what the value is?
It seems to me that in the same way the deBeers (or whoever) is keeping the prices high, the fact that people like Istara are NOT buying the diamonds that they’d LIKE to buy works in the opposite direction, keeping the prices lower than they’d be otherwise.
Potential sellers would like the prices to be higher, potential buyers would like them to be lower, and the true value is being determined by the ones doing the actual buying and selling.
IANA economist, but what errors have I made in the above?
Yep. Market value of anything is set primarily by public perception. In addition to controlling the market, DeBeers has been financing a major propaganda campaign for years and years and years telling people that diamonds really are worth a lot of money. Result: People are willing to pay a lot for them.
I know a couple people who actually spent two month’s salary on their engagement rings.
Do you mean jewel or industrial quality diamonds? I heard recently, that based on the available supply of gem quality diamonds that the price should really be around $5.00 a carat. I don’t know how accurate this is and I am looking for some sort of cite. Of course it is now possible to manufacture gem quality diamonds and they sell for about 1/5 the cost of natural diamonds.
60 Minutes did a report on De Beers a few years ago. It was really upsetting to see how they control the diamond industry. I don’t remember if they mentioned the Russians trying to flood the market.
As mentioned, a diamond is only worth what someone is willing to pay but because we are brainwashed into believing we must have diamond engagement rings, earings etc., the market will always be against us.
The only way I can foresee the diamond market coming down is if we all changed traditions and started to use other tokens of love for engagements, anniversaries, birthdays etc (but not an already existing valuable item).
If you have any ideas, let me know. I’ll go in halves with you and we can control the market.
It is a myth that diamonds are rare. We have plenty of them in the world. But, you can’t compare the price of diamonds to the price of oil. Oil is needed to do things, so industry couldn’t operate without oil. So if your question, istara, is how much diamonds would be worth based on rarity, probably very little.
The guy who buys them locally said he would pay a dollar a point to me for stones I brought to him. He is pretty fair & probably wouldn’t charge a lot more than that if I bought them used from him.
Also, the stones have other uses besides for just rings & such.
So how do these people do business in the United States, which at least gives lip service to an anti-monopolistic stance. Controlling half or better of the market at outrageous markups for shiny pieces of carbon would seem to qualify, after all.
They don’t do business in the United States. It is widely reported that the De Beers officers don’t travel to the states because they would be arrested.
Most of the buying and selling of the diamonds takes place in Europe. I am not sure why the Europeans don’t try and prosecute. The EU certainly tries enforce their versions of anti trust laws. They stopped a merger between to US defence companies on an anti trust basis. They are cranky about Microsoft.
Tedster, as starfish pointed out, DeBeers is not a US company. But I believe that a grand jury was once convened to investigate the company’s business practices. DeBeers didn’t show up. So warrants for the arrest of top executives were issued. As a result, DeBeers officials don’t come to the US. Not much we could do beyond that, beyond asking for arrest and extradition from the UK. Something tells me that trying to do that over an anti-trust action isn’t high on anyone’s priority list.
