Don’t know, but once I catch it, I guaranty you that I’ll swiftly put it out of its misery with just 10 pounds of pressure to the proper part of its neck.
My Shao-lin Pilates instructor showed me how once.
But my Kung Fu Gitso Kwando Magra Sent Say, said that the neck is not a good target if you are going for the ear. I still say it depends on how sharp your teeth are. 
Fools! It not ten pounds. It’s ten foot pounds …er…ear pounds…never mind…
You’re good at being convincingly serious. 
10 lbs. per square in. is more believable.
I strongly suspect that ten pounds of pressure is like the Phi ratio in the Da Vinci Code but not in the way you might think.
[QUOTE=SimonX]
ten pounds of pressure per… in[sup]2[/sup]? cm[sup]2[/sup]?
A mere 10lbs in general, I’m not buying.
[QUOTE]
And here you have it. Ten pounds of “force” with no area or leverage taken into account is meaningless. This morning Fierra was sitting on my back trying to get my (1-year now) broken rib to stop hurting, and she bent my arm back up in a half-Nelson (I think) to move the muscles and I realized that she would have to put very little force from that position to dislocate my shoulder.
With ears, the main factor, all things equal, is whether there is a skin tear, as related by Xgemina. Once the skin goes, several things are shockingly easy to remove (I used to live with someone who dissected people…).
Regarding the comment about seme martial artist sensei or sifu claiming that 10lbs is enough force to break/tear is full of crap.
The actual answer is that Force = Mass x Acceleration. A good example oif ths is try to stick the thin end of a bull whip into a melon. Very hard. Now crack the whip and watch a great juicy chunk fly off. That is F=MA at work.
Therefore a correctly placed kick/punch/chop or even violent ‘rip’ will damage bodyparts, however as one of the more sensible guys here pointed out, resting a 10lb dumbell on a joint (or hanging off your ear) aint gonna do diddly.
PS any martial art that relies on ligament ripping or bune breaking is also full of crap. Unless you practice aforementioned ripping and breaking on a regular basis, you will not be able to do it ‘In Real LifeTM’
JimDigrtiz
In keeping with the ten pound spirit and going off on a tangent I read that an octopus can hold a 200 pound man underwater with 10 pounds of force, and that most are more than strong enough to do this
The Gracie and Machado families as well as anyone who succesfuly competes in mixed martial arts, judo, wrestling, jui jitsu, Vale Tudo, etc. nowadays might disagree with you on that thought…
Nor will you be able to gouge an eye, throw a KO punch, draw your gun or pepper spray fast enough, be able to hit what you’re aiming at, or [insert self-defense system technique here] properly unless you practice on a regular basis. I must be missing your point… what was it?
umm no. I trained in and successfully competed at Vale Tudo and full contact Jiu Jitsu for over 6 years. the Gracie style of Jiu Jitsu does NOT rely on bone breaking or tearing ligaments. In the same way that Pro Boxing does NOT rely on a detached retina.
The basic submission concept may result in a lock which could potentially damage joints, however the point is to induce pain so that your opponent submits.
The hawaiin martial art of Mua’Fata (sic?) is one art which purports to rely on bone breaking…
The point that you are missing is this: How many times would you return to a martial arts gym where they actualy practiced breaking bones/ruining joints? Probably never after your first cast was taken off.
The general point is this. Any sport/art where you rely on a technique which you cannot effectively practice is fundamentally flawed. Simple.
Oh, I see. Your theory is correct, unfortunately your knowledge of submission fighting is severly lacking and fundamentally flawed; no problem though, that’s what this forum is for (even though we’re hijacking the thread).
For those in the know, it’s common knowledge that grappling and submission arts, particularly ground-based ones (as opposed to standing & throwing ones) are pretty much the safest ones to practice accident and injury-wise and also the pretty much the best for practicing realisticly due to their nature, again without high risk of injury.
When you catch someone in an armbar or rear choke, you don’t actually follow through and break the arm or strangle the victim to death during class. They tap out - indicate “I give!”, and you let go… and they’ll only do this when they can’t escape and can feel an injury coming up, so you know you’ve done the technique right. You don’t miss out on the experience of doing it for real because you are doing 99% of that already. You get full resistance during take-downs or clinches, ground control and positioning, and technique applications… the only part you skip is pulling that 1/2" more or holding the choke an extra 10 seconds. The difference between doing an effective technique in class and in a real-life scenario is very slight, unlike say point-sparring in karate.
Rolling is equivilent reality-wise to sparring in boxing until someone gets the KO or TKO in the ring; only with out the blood, bruises, and brain being bounced around inside the skull.
Weapons training of any kind is even harder to train realistically since volunteers for a good tasering or pepper-spraying are hard to come by, and you absolutely can’t slice your live training partners open with a blade or pump 3 rounds into their chests at all.
All those systems have merit and advantages over each other, but submissions training gets the prize for being the easiest to train realistically and/or with the least negative impact on the body both short and long-term. Check out this guy who’s over 90 now and still rolls with his sons. It’s unlikely you’ll find even a 60 year-old guy who can still climb into a muay-thai ring and go a few rounds.
I wouldn’t recommend grappling for stand-alone self-defense, but a person shouldn’t be afraid to try it or knock it until they have.
Oh crap, I missed your first post in response to mine - only saw the very last one. Perhaps you know more than my last post indicated, so ignore those parts. :smack:
My understanding was that the hawaiian art was pretty much the same as other sub arts and is just described as the art of “bone-breaking”. I don’t know how a human would be able to break another human’s bones without using joint locks or huge punches and kicks to weaker body parts, which would make it just like many other systems with only a difference in name, and if it is like other systems it can’t really be singled out for critisism… then again at 1-4 John Matua can’t seem to make it work very well for him.
I’m a little confused at how one could say a submission is directly caused by the pain from an iminent joint/ligament injury, yet the submission doesn’t rely on joint injury. If there were no injury potential, there’d be no submission - just as there’d be no KO if there wasn’t any shock or damage to the brain. Ah, I think it’s just semantics that’s all… like saying the police aren’t trained to shoot to kill yet are trained to aim for the center of the torso. It’s not their intent, but if done properly their methods almost assure it.
One more :smack: for most of my last post… one little slip-up!!!
Some Teeth + Mike Tyson = …
Well summed up sir, let us not hijack this post any further… 