How much longer can they keep calling her "Hillary"?

Politics & Elections
1

I saw Tim Kaine on some show yesterday, and he was talking about the campaign, of course… and it struck me as odd how he kept referring to Clinton as “Hillary.” It was “Oh yeah, I was talking to Hillary about this yesterday, Hillary and I think such and such, Hillary this, Hillary that…”

Is this normal? I’m asking sincerely, because I don’t remember whether or not other people in her position have been routinely referred to so casually, by their first names. Help me out if you remember, were people dropping Baracks, Johns, Georges and Als in recent elections?

It’s not like Kaine outranks her. He’s a senator and former governor, she’s a former senator and former cabinet member.

And it’s not just him, it seems like for every mention of “Secretary Clinton” in the media, there are at least as many “Hillarys” (totally subjective observation, I have no data on this). Why isn’t it just “Clinton” more often? To disambiguate from her husband? No, they called GWB “Bush” all the time.

Is it a gender thing? I know, we don’t want to attribute everything to sexism, but is it a sign that she’s not taken quite as seriously? Or alternatively, is it considered rude and disrespectful to refer to a lady by last name only?

How long can they keep this up? I assume her campaign is going to want people to start thinking of her as “President Clinton”, right? Or “President Elect Clinton?” Or will she remain “Hillary” until she takes office (at which time I assume a more rigid protocol will take effect)?

2

I hate this, and I think it’s particularly disturbing that only the woman is referred to by her first name, but:

  1. I think it’s a deliberate strategy to show that she herself, not just Bill Clinton’s wife, and easier than being Candidate Rodham;

  2. It’s a generational thing. I cringe when new acquaintances (and salesmen) call me by my first name, but most of them have no idea why it seems weird. To the Millennials, and proably the younger Gen-Xers, “Hillary” sounds normal and “Clinton” sounds stilted and old-fashioned.

3

At least part of it is relatability. People just don’t like her very much, and normalizing “Hillary” makes her a bit more approachable.

It’s is also a pretty uncommon name, so it’s easy to really tie it to her.

4

I try to call her Clinton, since it seems wrong to me to refer to her opposition by his last name but to use her first name.

However, her own campaign mostly calls her Hillary. Her iconic symbol is an H, with an arrow for the crossbar. If you go to her website, you’ll see that she is referred to as Hillary most of the time.

5

They’ve definitely chosen “Hillary” for her brand. That said, it just added to the unpleasantness of the debates, and most other public discourse from the candidates, when they “Hillary…” this and “Donald…” that. It just seems blatantly disrespectful, even in context with the disrespect in the comments about each other. It’s a weird election.

6

Are we gonna call her President Hillary to distinguish her from Bill?

As an aside, I remember when I was little, pastors always went by “Pastor [last name].” Then around the early- to mid-90s, they all started going by “Pastor [first name].” Maybe this trend is moving up to the presidency.

“President Bob.”

7

In the case of Tim Kaine, he’s just showing that he’s on a first-name basis with her. And maybe that he wants the American people to feel like they’re on a first name basis with her as well.

But I can think of three other factors that might be in play:

(1) It seems to be traditional, at least in certain contexts, to refer to men by their last names and women by their first names. I know I’ve read books in which the male characters are referred to as Smith and Jones but the females are referred to as Ann and Mary.

(2) In situations where it would be typical to refer to her by last name only (like we do with “Trump said this” or “Obama did that”), “Clinton” would be ambiguous: we’ve already had another prominent Clinton. This is part of why GWB was sometimes referred to as “Dubya” rather than “Bush” (or “George”).

(3) A man could be referred to as “Mr. Lastname,” but for a woman, you have to choose between “Mrs.” and “Ms.” both of which bother at least a few people.

8

She was referred to as Secretary Clinton when she was in a the Cabinet. No ambiguity there. And I recall Bush being called lots of things, including the prefixed as “the Second”, or “the younger”, called by his full name, called Junior (which incidentally is not his name), Dubya, Dubya Bush, 43…

Not everything is sexism to quote Chris Rock.

9

I think it’s partly because she’s a woman, and you do see women referred to by their first names a lot of times when you would see men referred to by their last names.

However, it’s also a new casualness, for which the Baby Boomers are to blame.

When I was a child, it was VERBOTEN to refer to an adult by his or her first name. A very close family friend might get to be an honorary Aunt or Uncle Firstname, but that was as close as it got. I remember feeling very grown up when I was in high school and people in their 20s started introducing themselves to me by their first names.

Baby Boomers had a “thing” about getting old, though. They were the generation who said “Never trust anyone under thirty,” and when they hit middle age, they were in some serious denial. Part of it involved having children call them by their first names.

Now hardly anyone uses honorifics anymore. Medical doctors insist on them, and Ph.Ds get called “Dr.,” or “Prof.” by students in a classroom, but they still have to face small children calling them by their first names outside of it. Classroom teachers have maintained being called “Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. Lastname,” but I wonder sometimes how long that will last. I hear kinds in preschools call teachers by their first names all the time. In the one where I work, it’s “Miss Rivkah,” or whatever, which is more formal than just being Rivkah, but it’s no “Mrs. Maccaby.” I’ve very rarely been called “Mrs. Maccaby.” The most I was ever called by an honorific was when I was in the military and I was “Specialist.”

So I think two things have come together: a generation at voting age who is unfamiliar with using honorifics, and calls virtually everyone by their first name, and sexism that dictates that women aren’t called by their last name alone.

With a dose of distinguishing her from her husband. She was already “Hillary” in the press as First Lady, which was a different thing from the younger Bush, who was largely unknown by the whole country during his father’s administration-- and don’t forget, during his campaign and administration, he was frequently referred to by the nickname “W.” Or “Dubya.”

10

Mrs. Clinton certainly gets her share of disrespect in many ways. I don’t see “Hillary” as a gender issue, however. As pointed out, her campaign has embraced it. Moreover, remember “Bernie?”
Anyway, this isn’t new this cycle:

11

I agree with those who argue that much of it comes from the fact that there is already another politically influential Clinton. Noting that Jeb Bush mostly goes by Jeb to distinguish him from his brother, and as Thudlow (or should I use the more formal Bonk) says, GW Bush would go by “W” to distinguish himself from his father at first. I think once H. Clinton wins the whitehouse and is president for a while so that it becomes clear which Clinton is referred to, “Hillary” will start to fade.

12

I tried referring to him as Bush fils, but it never caught on.

13

I call Hillary, Hillary, to distinguish her from that other Clinton chap, who I sometimes call Bill. I’m more like to refer to Bill and Hillary now that Hillary has a career of her own beyond First Lady. I’d be happy to call her Rodham Clinton but she’s constantly dithered on that point.

Donald, otoh, I’ve called The Donald for my entire adult life. If I call him Trump at all, it’s usually for effect or to avoid repetition. Ronald Reagan is almost never Ronald. I don’t like the name Ronald. Never have. “Ronnie” I avoid because it sounds slighting, and usually when I want to cast aspersions at Reagan, I don’t want to distract from the more substantive criticisms.

Bush pere et fils I usually refer to by their initials to distinguish them.

Carter is Carter although Jimmy seems like it ought to be an easy choice. Nixon is Nixon. LBJ and JFK are initials. Bobby Kennedy is Bobby, again because we already have a Kennedy. JFK is never Jack, no one would know who I was talking about.

Ike is sometimes Ike. There’s only one Ike. And Truman is usually Harry Truman. Both names are more harmonious. Like Jack, Harry is too common to be memorable.

Franklin is more often to be Franklin or Franklin Delano Roosevelt. But Teddy is the First Roosevelt, so he gets Roosevelt for me, although Teddy works too. There is only one Teddy.

ETA: My prefered designation for the current Prince and Princess of Wales is Bill and Kathy Cambridge.

14

To answer the OP’s question, we’ll stop calling her Hillary on November 8th at 8pm Pacific Standard Time. Perhaps even an hour or two before.

15

This is just standard GOP tactics. President Obama was Barack, the Democratic party is the Democrat Party.

Controlling the narrative is something they have become very good at, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

16

My understanding is that it really pisses of [del]Mr.[/del] Donald [del]Trump[/del] when he gets called by his first name, i.e. his son in law and major campaign advisor Jared Kushner calls him Mr. Trump even in private, and there has been speculation that Hillary Clinton uses this as a tactic in order to rile him. Perhaps she prefers to also go by her first name, at least during the campaign, so as not to seem arrogant.

17

That’s just the asshole wing of the party. It’s like writing “Amerika.” Tells you all you need to know about a person.

18

Actually Roosevelt II would be FDR. I’ve never heard anyone just call him “Franklin.”

I’m surprised Hillary didn’t launch her campaign using her hyphenated name-- Hillary Rodham-Clinton, with the request to media that she be called “President Rodham-Clinton” once she took office. Would be a nice distinguishing feature, plus a nod to her own roots.

19

True. Like Truck Nutz, it’s a self labeling system for people I don’t want to hang out with.

20

I don’t think it’s sexist. It’s for a few reasons:

  1. To soften her image. Her reputation is for being cold and calculating, so the campaign embraced “Hillary” to sound more casual and personable.
  2. To distinguish her from that other Clinton.

I’ve also heard her referred to “Secretary Clinton” quite often, but mostly by the press. Supporters and her campaign normally use “Hillary.”