I’m asking this question because of the threads about George Bush landing on the Lincoln. Originally he wanted to fly in a F-18, but the Secret Service nixed that request. Did the Secret Service have the right to tell Bush no, or could Bush do whatever he wanted?
Also, what happens if an average Joe Schmo is at a restaurant and the presidential entourage arrives for a meal. At what point can the Secret Service make him get up and leave? Anytime? Can he finish his meal and order dessert or get it packed to go?
If the owner of the restaurant doesn’t want the Secret Service to hassle his customers, can he tell the president to pick another restaurant? What are the average citizen’s rights in a situation like this?
I’m not certain on this but I am of the opinion that the President can do pretty much as he pleases and the Secret Service has to accomodate his whims. That said the Secret Service is there to protect the President and it would be foolish for the President to disregard their recommendations without good reason.
As to the President appearing in public the Secret Service has no right to oust customers. They might ask you to leave…politely and firmly…but I doubt they can just move you if they feel like it. I seem to remember a time when George Bush Sr. visited the Billy Goat Tavern in Chicago (made famous in the Saturday Night Live skit about cheeseborgers, no fry…chip). Customers were in there and no one got moved out of the way for the President. I think the President even invited one or two customers who happened to be in there to join him.
Of course if the Secret Service feels the President is in immediate danger then all bets are off. No one, not even the President, will stop them from doing whatever they feel necessary to ensure his safety.
Well, if Shrub is going to make a stop at a restaurant, it is usually known well in advance and the Secret Service will come through with the bomb-sniffing dogs and the X-ray machines and all and sundry equipment and give the place a thorough going over before shrub gets within 100 miles of the place.
Sadly, the phrases ’ National Security’ and 'Clear and Present Danger ’ have become umbrellas. If that group- the Presidential entourage- entered a public establishment, you can bet your bottom dollar that you would be asked to leave it, along with anyone else not cleared in advance.
You would have no choice. You would be expected to comply willingly and with serious rapid pace. And no, no negotiations or arguments would be tolerated. I have worked jobs on the inside of that entourage more than once. There is no benign discussion. I was on a shoot once, early on in Bill Clinton’s first term. He was working his health care initiative in Connecticut in a small town. First, the visit to the local pharmacy, then a talk at a local school auditorium.
The street had been ostensibly locked down, the crowds kept a block away ( and all passed a metal detector anyway ). Some local person somehow drove up the block anyway, and pulled up in front of the pharmacy to get her prescription.
The car had barely come to a stop. The woman was rushed by several Secret Service Agents and I am here to tell you as an eyewitness, that there was no prolonged discussion on the merits of her need to get her meds.
She was off that block in less than fifteen seconds. End of tale. They can just move you if they feel like it, but always under the understandable guise of the two phrases I quoted at the head of this post.
Now, I am in no way criticising this attitude by the people who are sworn to protect the President, I am simply stating what I have witnessed, and the tone and approach that seems to be more the norm than not.
Cartooniverse, who was within arm’s reach of Clinton on three occasions.
Cartooniverse, the story you relate scares me. I realize the Secret Service is there to protect the president, but that scenario is ridiculous. Thanks to all you Dopers who answered my questions.
Cartooniverse, I think medstar meant “ridiculous” in the sense of “it’s ridiculous that the Secret Service has the latitude to do that” as opposed to “that story is so ridiculous as to be unbelievable.”
Yeah, man, I don’t think he/she doesn’t believe you.
Something else worth mentioning: the Secret Service has other duties in addition to guarding high-ranking members of the executive; they are, after all, agents of the Treasury Department. They also do criminal investigations of credit fraud, counterfeiting, money laundering, etc. etc.
Say you are the president and you have, admittedly, a lot of people who don’t much care for you. Many of these people have access to guns. You are being protected by the USSS. Wouldn’t you want them to make sure that you are not dead first and apologize later for any inconvenience?
I don’t want to turn this into a great debate but they do have, as I understand it, a fairly wide latitude in their powers but not, particularly, the ability to overrule the president. If he says he’s going to Burger King, they are going to make it safe for him. When I have the chance I will see what I can find in the way of cites.
At what point is the detail assigned to the president allowed to overrule him? Do they have any discretion at all? If he were to go wacky on, say, a reporter he hated, could they stop him? What if he was in danger of prosecution and was fleeing to mexico or something? Do they have to drive where he tells them?
I had a minor run-in with the Secret Service several years ago when Bill Clinton visited Boston to speak at the Northeastern University commencement ceremony. My buddy and I watched the speech on TV and then got in my car (a convertible) to head somewhere south of Boston.
We drove up the ramp to I-93 South to find that the road had just been closed by state troopers. They hadn’t secured the ramp yet, however, so we were able to get on the road. In fact, we were the only car on the road – there wasn’t a car in sight ahead of us. They were all stacked up behind us.
I drove along at the 55 mph speed limit since I figured there would be cops around every corner. Two Secret Service officers in an unmarked car soon pulled up beside us and one yelled, “Get out of here, NOW!” I sped up to about 70 mph. Not fast enough. He yelled, “FASTER!” He didn’t seem satisfied until we were doing 105 mph, at which point we couldn’t hear what he was yelling any longer (that’s why I mentioned the convertible).
Apparently the Secret Service can force you to break the law and put yourself at risk of serious injury if it is in the interest of national security.
Cartooniverse, please accept my apologies for the tone of my post. I wasn’t doubting you; I was flabbergasted that the Secret Service would act like such bullies. I wonder if the president knows that they act like jerks sometimes when they don’t need to.
I don’t think the law is of much concern in cases like this. They most likely go ahead and break the law and suffer the minor consequences, if that.
Regular bodyguards sometimes break the law to give their (rich) clients what they want. The client then pays any fines incurred. No biggie.
Peace,
mangeorge
