How much self-censorship needed?

I like Anthracite’s idea. I’m just skimming ATMB and I’ve seen two places where wrong info has been given with the best possible intent. If this becomes a forum where people can test and where mods answer questions, wouldn’t that prevent situations where people are junior mods?

I’m thinking it would cut down the workload too as you don’t have moderate the junior mods while giving the correct answer to the OP.

I’m leaning toward Anthracite’s idea. Instances where ordinary members are being too helpful, and that help turns into a major hinderance, however few or frequent, should not happen at all.

It’s definitely a step worth looking at, if the “comment only using FAQs/sticky thread/whatever” instruction fails.

That approach might be a bit too restrictive.

This thread was a specific instance where an exceptional ruling was requested, and it didn’t work out too well.

But a lot of the threads are simple GQ like questions, e.g.:

Why doesn’t HTML work, how do I quote another post, why do I get double posts, etc.

And while a “read the FAQ” answer might technically be correct, it may come out sounding like a “use Google” answer in GQ. Correct, but impolite.

Also, because this forum is for testing stuff, it often is appropriate for other members to comment. A thread I started here was to test the reactions of different browsers to various HTML character entities. I needed the feedback I got from the other members, and their suggestions for alternatives. This was stuff that the staff wouldn’t necessarily know, and couldn’t be covered in a FAQ of finite length.

I agree with your points, Desmostylus. But, where some threads in ATMB are able to be commented upon by the examples you gave, by the same token we have the situation which sparked off this present discussion where a poster gave advice which came across as board policy, when only the staff can truly state policy.

Frankly, this whole thing has made me uncertain as to where in ATMB I should or should not comment, for fear of breaching a policy or sending someone inadvertantly down the wrong path by my advice or statements. Very unsettling, unless a firm rule is decided upon.

Whatever happens – ATMB may never be the same again, after this thread.

We’ll see what happens, Wolfie.

With you, Lynn, Dex, Polycarp and Anthracite all in this thread, the last thing I want is to get in the middle of an inter-board moderator argument. :slight_smile:

Disclaimer: In this thread, we’re currently discussing board policy, but I seriously doubt that anybody who reads this thread will take what any Members say at this point as guidelines for posting. Like, for instance, what I’m about to say.

I personally think that cutting off regular Members from ATMB is a horrible idea; this is one of my favorite forums. Is it really that hard to tell what’s board policy and what’s not? The problem that happened here could have been prevented if there was a rule saying no Members are allowed to respond to any posts in ATMB, but it could also have been prevented with a rule saying Members are not allowed to speculate on policy. And sometimes these threads start in other forums, so it would take care of it there as well.

Wouldn’t it be enough if there was a Rule saying, “Non-Moderators may not make any statements which may easily be interpreted as board policy, except by directly quoting a Moderator”? And of course, linking to Moderator statements, in the FAQ or otherwise, would also be encouraged.

No, I’m just a long-time poster to this board, who loves the opportunity to be able to join folk like yourself in discussions and answering questions. Helping my fellow posters, or trying to, without giving someone the wrong direction.

I’m a worried Wolfie, to be sure. I’d like ATMB to still be a free exchange of ideas – but not if it means the staff here come under pressure, or have members spouting statements off the top of the head that turns out to be utterly inappropriate.

I really do agree with your points, Desmostylus. And I really do hope some real resolution can be found, so we know where we’re going, what we can and cannot do, and don’t end up adding to people’s stress levels unnecessarily.

As I said before, Dex’s points are worth sticking to – hopefully, they won’t have to consider bringing in a situation as Anthracite suggested if the former works.

I’d really miss the old ATMB if that happened. :frowning:

The suggestion is an interesting one, Anthracite, but I think it would be too restrictive. ATMB is useful in generating discussion and information, and ideas (like the one you just gave), and I think it would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I think it’s far better if the older, wiser members would just please refrain from trying to state policy. Coming to the rescue by referring someone to the FAQ or quoting the FAQ is certainly helpful. Trying to come to the rescue by applying the policy is … well… risky.

May I use the analogy of the illegal practice of law? In the U.S., if you are not a lawyer, you cannot give legal advice. You can quote the law, you can describe general situations, you can tell people where to look up the law… but you can’t interpret the law to an individual situation. We’re much the same thing here. If you are not a moderator, you can quote the FAQ, you can describe general situations (with the disclaimer that you are NOT a moderator), you can tell people to email a Moderator… but you can’t try to guess what the Moderators will say.

It’s also worth pointing out that we are NOT firm and fixed. We’re evolving. The FAQ change over time, some stricter, some looser, as we see what works and what best serves the members. The past is not necessarily a guide to the future.

Hence, again, I think the solution is that these experienced, well-meaning members self-monitor themselves. And I repeat, these arent cases of nasty evil usurpers trying to supplant the Moderators. These are cases of well-intended senior members trying to be helpful. We’re not asking you not to try to be helpful, we’re just asking you to be careful what you say and how you say it, and we’re asking that you refrain from “being helpful” in situations that require a Moderator’s opinion.

Thank you. May I ask for another clarification?

Are you saying when somebody asks about policy and it’s not covered in the FAQ, we should report it? Like with the OP of this thread? Wouldn’t that notify only TubaDiva?

Is it okay to say, e.g., “I am not an Administrator or Moderator, but from a user’s standpoint …” and then conclude with, “this is not necessarily Board policy at all, and an Administrator or Moderator will be along momentarily to provide an official ruling”?

The reason I wonder this is that if answer is desired only from an Administrator or Moderator, then email would be a good way to get that specific answer. (By the same token, if a person wanted only such an official response but still wanted to post it in ATMB, he/she probably should ask for an “official response” in the OP specifically, just to stave off potential helpful people.)

But since the subject of many of the ATMB threads affect most users, perhaps a regular-member viewpoint would be welcomed - as long as it was clear that such a view was not an official response in any form.

I may not have made this post clear; here’s hoping.