I live in Ontario and I have been divorced for about 5 years. My ex and I have joint custody of our children.
I currently pay about $700 a month in child support and $700 in spousal support but the spousal support is only for 7 years.
We agreed to these amounts through a separation agreement outside of the courts.
I make about $90 000 a year and my spouse makes $42 000.
After talking to other people, I am questioning these amounts. A consult with a lawyer is $300 and websites are confusing.
Can the dope help?
How many kids?
Online support calculators for Ontario say a parent making $90k would pay $1,293 a month, but that’s only a general figure. I don’t know about Ontario but in most US states, the amount is reduced the more time the kids spend with you. It’s also normal to factor in the other parents income as well.
I will say that my daughter’s mother wasn’t working when support was calculated so they figured it for minimum wage, which is around $14k per year and her support obligation for one child was nearly $400. So $700 for two (or more?) kids on $90k doesn’t sound like too much.
If you agreed to it, you agreed to it. If you think the amount is unreasonable, that’s something you should have brought up before you signed.
Absolutely, I’m not arguing that. The agreement can be reopened if our financial situations change.
And I have two kids. Forgot to mention that.
I was told by a friend that I should not be paying child support if I have joint custody.
If you make more than your ex you’ll pay, at least in the US. Support is usually calculated by combining the two incomes then giving a percentage to the kids, so they are entitled to a percentage of $142K. If you made 75% of that $142K, you’d pay 75% of that percentage while mom would presumably be spending her 25% directly on the kids.
Legal advice is best suited to IMHO.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
I did. Because of the difference between my income and my ex’s.
Doesn’t it depend where the kids live, what proportion of their time with each parent?
Look at it this way -
Plunk your incomes together - say 90+42= $132K
Look up expected child support costs for that in the Ontario (federal?) child support tables (they’re online somewhere).
Let’s pretend it’s $2,000/month, $24,000 a year. (I have no idea, but I knew a guy paying $900 for his share of 2 kids on about $60,000.)
You make twice what she does (roughly) so your share to pay is $16,000, hers is $8,000.
But you have the kids one third of the time, let’s say.
So you are entitled to $8,000 of the $24,000 that pays for kids. She gets $16,000.
Work out the imbalance, and you are giving $16,000 of which $8,000 comes to you, net $8,000 you pay to her.
She gets $16,000 of the $24,000 (2/3 of the time, 2/3 the money). She’s putting in $8,000 of it. So she gets $8,000 from you.
Of course, alimony / spousal support is a dying breed in Canada from what I’ve heard.
OTOH, don’t tick her off. Be generous. Otherwise, she can at any time take you to court (lawyer fees!) and then end up with whatever the court says is an appropriate time share on the kids, plus the official support table recommended amount.
And… that does not even include other special costs which can be spread equitably - school trips, then college fees (you’re on the hook until they finish). I know one fellow who was sure his wife was taking him to the cleaners by claiming the kids were still in college even though they dropped out a year or two before. It wasn’t worth the court costs to fight it. You can refuse to pay for your kids’ college if you are still married, but once you’re divorced, the court can make you pay…
Spousal Support
Child Support
each have a link to a calculator or table.
No. “Joint custody” just means that both parents can share in the decision-making as regards the children. If your ex has what is known as “day to day care” of the children, you will still pay child support, even if you and your ex have joint custody.
Note that joint custody is the most common arrangement, and child support will generally paid to the parent who has day to day care. Canadian courts are extremely reluctant to grant sole custody.
Not necessarily. True, the “support until remarriage or death” model is rare, but as many women are capable of supporting themselves nowadays, it is not unusual to see spousal support orders that expire after a certain time, are reduced over time, and so on. Spousal support isn’t dying, but it is changing.
We share custody equally.
That support calculator was really helpful. Thanks for the link.
Based on the your individual incomes, neither of you need child support.
That’s absurd.
Child support isn’t about what the parents need, it’s about what the child is owed.
Both parents engineered a family with X amount of income with a certain percentage assigned to the rearing of their children. The fact that the parents have elected to dissolve the family structure they had has no bearing on what the children are owned based on the family structure they were brought into. The children have parents that must contribute to their well being.
Your statement makes more sense if you meant “neither of you require spousal support”.
I am happy to pay child support if it means my children have an equal standard of living with their mother as they do with me.
Some people say I shouldn’t pay child support, some say I shouldn’t pay spousal support. The link to the support tables provided above gives me a good sense that I am paying the right amounts.
Sure I could fight but the lawyers would win. I have to look my children in the eye until the day I die.
It’s less than 10% of your income for each. Sounds pretty fair.
A few points
Assuming Canada is even roughly similar to a liberal leaning state like MD re custody and CS, your friend is full of crap re joint/shared custody negating CS. That’s abject nonsense.
With shared custody the CS of 700 for 2 kids given the relative incomes sounds in line or even somewhat low. I paid 750 for 2 kids when my CS started in 1996 and I was making around $ 60,000 a year at the time and my ex was making about $30,000. Your universal medical coverage might skew how Canadian CS and support calculations are performed as health insurance and related health service costs are often a very major household expense in the US.
The alimony you pay relative to your income is not typical at all in the US. Maybe it’s different in Canada. The 7 years of alimony is (to me) utterly insane given your income levels and the fact that your spouse is gainfully employed and making $40,000 + per year. Alimony with two working spouses is pretty rare in the US these days except for maybe a few months to year or so at most post-divorce in most middle class divorces. If you’re wealthy these scenarios can change but your incomes are solidly middle class. It sounds like you were taken to the cleaners in your non-court “separation agreement”. 7 years … wow.
You have about $ 17,000 left in alimony payments re 2 years x 700. Regardless of how foolish it was to agree to that at the time trying to bust the agreement at this point will probably cost you near that in legal fees. Just put your head down, pay it and move on. Console yourself that it was for the family.
I wouldn’t make that assumption.
I’m going through this in Ontario too. My draft agreement is for almost $700 X 2 for the kids ($1,400 a month) plus almost $600 in alimony. I think the OP has a good deal actually. Our incomes aren’t grossly different for either spouse.
I have yet to sign my agreement. The calculators linked above though tell me that my agreement is pretty much in line with the law.
This is fascinating. These alimony amounts sound like US from the 60’s when most women were stay at home housewives. Guess the US and CAnada are two different worlds. If anything I would have bet Canada had a more progressive approach than tbe US instead of more retro.
Well, what Leaffan is talking about is a draft agreement whose terms were (presumably) drafted with the progressive input of both parties involved and agreed to voluntarily. I don’t think that necessarily says anything about typical Canadian court ordered payments.
That said, it seems like law blogs generally support the assertion that spousal support law reform has made slower headway in Canada than it has in the US.