Listened to a podcast today discussing their net outflow of people, in particular a brain drain. Lots to Australia but not only. Plus their birth rate is low and dropping:1.56. That’s not a great combination.
I understand it is a great place, not just pretty. But I get it. Australia is warmer and better economy.
But it is a great place. Seems to me that there are heaps of highly educated Americans starting to seriously think about relocating. A wee bit of incentive and marketing could convince a sizable number to rattle our dags and have a crack at it before this country completely carks it!
Really. Is there more of an outreach to unhappy Americans, especially young professionals, than I know about?
Posting from Auckland at the moment. It’s my third trip to NZ and I’d be more than happy to leave the US to live here. I don’t think they’re particularly interested in 70 year old immigrants though.
Also 25 years ago, when my husband (Kiwi native) and I almost moved there, it was going to be quite a struggle for me as a US citizen to gain citizenship. Five years as a resident alien to even be considered. I was mid-40s and not unskilled. I doubt it has gotten any easier. They’re not that keen on US-ians.
My thought was not focus on marketing to we who be the old farts, even if we bring wealth with us, but targeted marketing to recent American college and higher graduates.
Just a general mistrust I encountered among the populace in my time spent there visiting family and friends.
My personal experiences are not dispositive, of course – but I was struck by the vague unease I detected whenever I discussed our plans to move there. Perhaps it was just a bit of provincialism, but they generally seemed more comfortable with Europeans, particularly the British, and Australians, than Americans.
Hmm. I did a bunch of IT work with the NZ government back in the early 2000s. Visited Wellington a number of times on that project and seriously considered trying to emigrate there. I was then 40-something, so the thought was to both work there full-time for another ~20 years then retire there for the remainder of my life.
So I did some research on how to be allowed to go there & stay there. IIRC one of the ways to obtain some kind of long-term resident alien status was to deposit the then-equivalent of about one meelion (pinky to mouth) US dollars with the NZ government in a non-interest bearing account. If you did that, all your sins of birth were forgiven and regardless of age or national origin you would be given that status.
So plenty practical for a couple - few million Americans, and especially those later in life. Enough Americans to utterly swamp the native Kiwi population. And yet still be a drop in the bucket of Americans of all economic statuses who may well be interested in leaving the USA for … reasons.
The average cost of housing is apparently 908,000 NZD which is around $539147.58 or the average cost in tech states like New Jersey*. Also far cheaper than California where it is around $900,000.
That won’t be the barrier.
Average cost in NJ is $548,338, Average for Nation is $426,900.
This all comports exactly with my recollection of migrating. We were not of sufficient financial stature to consider this avenue of entry, however. Our ticket was my husband’s native citizenship. Since he died before the 5-year residency requirement would have been fulfilled, I have no idea how they would have dealt with me. Still, I now regret we didn’t go. Not a chance I could get in today, except to marry another Kiwi – and that ain’t gonna happen!
Some things people should consider before making the Big Leap:
The beaches are beautiful. The attendant sand fleas, not so much.
Availability of goods is quite limited compared to what Americans are accustomed to. And they are expensive, because everything must be transported in.
You can’t own beach front property. All rights to that are granted solely to the Maori natives.
You are very far away from all things familiar. That can wear on you after awhile, if you’re someone closely attached to friends and family.
The food is… different.
NZers can be quite aggressive in their use of pesticides and herbicides despite their “clean, green” reputation. Perhaps it’s different now, but organic foods were unheard of when we looked into going.
Don’t get me wrong. I love the place and the people. As I said, I wish now we’d gone.
Last I checked (though that was many decades ago) Australia was equally strict about immigration, if not more so.
The reason I checked, back then lo those many years ago, is that my best friend and I had the extremely reasonable plan ( ) of buying an ocean-going sailboat and sailing all over the world, ending up finally in Australia and maybe settling down there.* Immigration was not so easy.
Fortunately, our plans went awry when each of us was captivated (or maybe “captured” is a better term) by a wily female** with great interest in a husband and no interest at all in Australia!
* We both had some experience sailing. We each owned sailboats of substantial size. We were crazy, but not insane, if you understand the distinction!
** To be clear, two different wily females. Not the same one.
Most OECD countries are in trouble. Do check out the click baity titled (and very alarmist) vid from Kurzgesagt below. It goes in depth about S. Korea, but only because they’re first in line. Other countries are mentioned too, and the overall trends that are pushing S. Korea over the edge are pushing other nations as well: low birth rates, aging population ASF.
And most OECD countries are hostile (to a larger or smaller degree) when it comes to importing people.
Because like it or not, a lifetime in the US has filtered into most American’s brains, making them think things that other countries don’t really want their citizens thinking.
On our local reddit, just this week we had a post by an American who was soon to be moving to our city. They were seriously asking about “Self defense options” for when they were walking around or using public transit, since guns are largely banned, and regular carrying just about completely banned.
It never really occurred to them that self defense really isn’t a concern for the vast majority of Canadians out in public, and that we really, actually, do just walk around unarmed.
Me too at that time. Like you, it would have been quite an adventure if we could have pulled it off. And my then-wife’s impending fatal illness would have been quite a ride in their system.
Beyond that personal note, concur totally with your comments about NZ as a whole.
Compared to the US as a whole, NZ is an expensive place with low wages in a small economy. Compared to the top few most expensive US states, it’s pretty comparable on the cost side, but people’s wages are a bunch lower. They live as well or better socially through a relatively non-consumerist attitude that might feel familiar to most of us through the attitudes of our own Depression-era parents. Stuff? Who needs it? Do without; it’s cheaper.
Why is it ok for other countries to have very strict rules to enter and or immigrate but when Americans do it were are big ol’meany heads of the world?
Any country, Any country should have border control and laws, rules and steps to take to become a permanant resident or a citizen.
There’s nothing wrong with that.
When you see the noise on YouTube of people being stopped at a border and harassed make sure you know they are faked so so much, there are people making parody “fakes”. Its a jumble of misinformation. Look away!
And, finally, if you can pay a wad of dough to become a citizen doesn’t it defeat the whole purpose of requirements. So much for patriotic pride in your nation. It’s all a joke.
Low birth rate, aging, and younger adults increasingly leaving. When you have a birthrate as low as they have you need to have more influx of young workers than efflux. Or dramatic productivity increases. Or else your economy goes into a death spiral.
My impression from the podcast had been that NZ was bigger on immigration, especially from China and India. But reading more it seems to be a push for temporary student and work status and not easy paths to permanent status.
So answering my own OP: they are in deep trouble. They are not going to suddenly increase their birthrate. They are having more emigration than immigration. And they seem to have no plan to seriously address that matter deficit. The economy will get worse. GDP will drop further.
Agreed. My husband had dual citizenship, both NZ and Aus, due to their reciprocity agreements. He had also lived in Aus for half his life. So we could have gone to Australia as easily (meaning not easily for me!) as to NZ.
They are even more hostile to Americans than NZers. In my travels there, I quickly learned what a septic tank was. For those who don’t know, it’s part of the Australian rhyming culture: What rhymes with Yank? Septic tank.
It was funny, too, because my perceptions of Aus are that they are far more Americanized than NZ, where British culture appears to have won out a bit more. Yet their disdain for Americans was more on display than in NZ.
Another point about NZ: I found the overt racism toward the Maori quite offputting. Some Kiwis are very casual about it. The American South has got nothing on those folks. Sad in both instances.
) of buying an ocean-going sailboat and sailing all over the world, ending up finally in Australia and maybe settling down there.* Immigration was not so easy.
