When I was working at a newspaper before the internet was available to me, the BBB was extremely valuable, especially out-of-town and out-of-state bureaus. They often would help me check out people I could find no other way. After I had access to the internet, I didn’t need them much, but they were occasionally some help when a reader got ripped off. Not very often, though.
The Better Business Bureau is not a consumer protection agency; they are a business advocacy group. While they do recognize that a scam artist is bad for business, because they are funded and run by representatives of businesses, they are slow to act and circumspect when they do.
However, if someone goes out of their way to talk about a member of the BBB, then they are scammers. Legitimate companies will put a decal on their front door, but never talk about it in their advertising. Scammer are quick to mention it because it lends an air of respectability.
My Lord, what a load of garbage.
I am not a big super-duper fan of the BBB, and I’ve said as much up thread. For the lurkers I would repeat this: The BBB is fast, has an easy to navigate web site, is free, and doesn’t require you to register.
I am a member and have never been pressured in any way. If they lobby at all, I’m unaware of it. They do not appear to advocate for business in any way that is discernible to me. We never hear from them; no calls, no mail, no politics. I have seen many fine businesses mention in their ads that they are in good standing with the BBB (which a BBB decal can’t show). The notion that a company that wishes to advertise that they have a good reputation in the community is a scammer, is pure and utter nonsense.
I’m not going to contribute any longer to this thread as I don’t have a dog in the fight, and I’m surely not an advocate of the BBB. If anyone is contemplating a large purchase I think they’d be well advised to take a quick look at the BBB.
Every complaint the BBB receives is logged. Every complaint is responded to with a letter, a summary of which is listed in the company’s profile. If you wish to believe that BBB is a scam, have at it.
If you wish to believe that a consumer is more likely to contact their State’s Attorney General vs the BBB, have at it. (and I would note that the AG doesn’t handle garden variety “the service sucked” complaints like the BBB does)
I don’t think you guys know what you’re talking about.
I’m prepared to be corrected with a cite (which I would actually appreciate, ftr) but I don’t believe the BBB takes reviews ala Google. IOW, they don’t log “positive reviews.”
They use some limited criteria initially to establish a grade, and over time your grade is reflective of the absence of complaints. In other words, “no news is good news.”
Can you show me the site where I can find the "raves’ about Midas?
And can you show me a news report that the (and they are all local offices) local BBB took kickbacks?
Every year or two The BBB attempts to extort cash from me. My employees know what to say to them.
I don’t understand what’s so objectionable about what **raindog **is saying. He acknowledges the BBB’s shortcomings, but also points out that they can be a useful tool in avoiding dealing with a scam company. The foremost and preeminent source of objective business report cards and customer/vendor dispute resolution? I wish, but they can be helpful in your research when buying a large ticket item. Positive ratings don’t always mean much, but negative ratings should make your spidey sense tingle, as those have to be earned, unlike the A+ grade which can be (in part) purchased. So how much value does the BBB have if they do nothing for conflict resolutions, but in some circumstances their ratings might be a valuable tool among many, while in others, their grade contributes very little to your overall fact-finding? My grade for them is D+
Ha ha ha. I love this board.
Here is an article from David Lazarus of the Los Angeles Times suggesting that BBB rates member firms higher than non-member firms. Here is an article from David Segal of the New York Times suggesting that the BBB considers complaints resolved even if the issue still exists for the customer. Here is a second article from David Segal of the New York Times suggesting that a company has a perfect BBB rating despite 1,166 complaints against it in the past three years. Here is another story about the BBB, this time from the ABC News program 20/20.
I never check it. I think it’s sort of outdated.
I’m a lifer in retail and customers love to say “I’ll report you to the BBB!”
Guess what? It’s doesn’t matter–we aren’t a member.
Damn. I guess I gave the BBB too much credit. So you can buy an A+ rating (even you register your business as “Stormfront”) and boost your rating from C to A+ if you’re a small business that purchases BBB membership?
“…a random search of the organization’s database of about 4 million North American companies seems to show that the roughly 400,000 accredited businesses, even those that get numerous complaints, very often receive higher grades than unaccredited companies with spotless complaint records.”
I especially loved the story (in the second Segal article) about the software company with the golden BBB record.
“More than 312 people had filed complaints about this company with the Better Business Bureau in the last three years, but the putative watchdog group still blessed it with an A-plus rating.”
Yep, raindog, that’s a pretty good example of why one shouldn’t put faith in a positive BBB rating.
The same BBB that gave its top rating to the much-complained about software company, also told its customers that if they wanted the BBB to mediate their disputes, they’d have to pay $70 - nearly twice as much as they paid for the product in the first place.
Nice.
My opinion of the BBB has morphed to somewhere between “useless” and “prone to deliberately misleading consumers and whitewashing the records of problem retailers”.
Someone will now argue that there are “good” BBB chapters, which probably translates to ones that are nearer the “useless” end of the spectrum.
No, heres what someone will likely argue:
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No one single source is a full and accurate repository of information. No single source should be fully trusted, including the BBB, and I said that in post 14.
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Outside ratings like Google, YP.com, Insiderpages, Angie’s list, Superpages, local pages, Yahoo, Bing, Judy’s list, YellowBot and many others are particularly vulnerable to gaming the reviews. If you’d like, I can cite several, and there are surely tens of thousands that have dubious----if not blatantly fraudulent reviews.
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It is absurd to think that the AG is a complete source for background information. The AG investigates/prosecutes criminal activity only. You could have an unbelievably shifty company who never runs sufficiently afoul of the law to be engaged by the AG. You are much more likely to find those companies sued civilly, than to be prosecuted criminally.
The point is simply this, and my issue with your post is the SDMB tendency to breeze into threads with verve and absolute certainty make the kind of definitive statements like yours. Its nonsense.
If I was buying a TV I’d check the many sources for reviews for the manufacturer & model. (and there are thousands of reliable reviews for almost every electronic gadget) I’d likely then narrow my search by checking out the various reviews of the retailers I might buy the TV from. Ultimately I would consider various sources, fully aware that any one of them might have some vulnerabilities, but the totality of them paints a more comprehensive picture.
On the other hand…if I was putting on a $50,000 room addition I would without a doubt check the State’s database for licensing and worker’s comp. I would check the AG’s office. I would check the BBB, and I might check Google and other sources for reviews. I might also see if they’d been sued, or defaulted on a bond.
BBB is one source of information. It is no less reliable than other sources and in some contexts it is more accurate.
No one in this thread has stated that the BBB is the Gold Standard take-it-to-the-bank source for information. But neither is it useless. It is one [quick & easy] source to learn about a company.
You made some bold statements that IME as a consumer are simply not true. The truth is actually somewhere in the middle, just as it is for most sources of information.
I don’t recall anyone claiming this.
I don’t recall anyone claiming this either.
Apparently you did not check out the links that Dewey Finn provided. My and others’ criticism of the BBB was mild compared to the damning revelations in those articles.
Speaking of the BBB supposedly being “no less reliable than other sources”, has Angie’s List (for example) been shown to boost low company ratings to the highest level if a business forks over a few hundred bucks for “membership” (as reported in the case of the BBB)? I believe the answer to that one is “no”.
I thought about making a similar thread earlier in the month.
[Anecdote]
My netbook stopped taking a charge and I was freaking out. I took it to the place where I normally get all my computers fixed, guy said, “Sorry, sounds like a mainboard thing; our motherboard guy doesn’t work here anymore, you should probably take it back to Future Shop where you bought it.”
Well, I ended up taking it to a local eponymous laptop repair place recommended by the guy at the Future Shop, who said my computer was off warranty. Laptop repair place looked a bit sketchy, but since the FS guy told me it was on the up and up, I figured, “what the hey! Free evaluation. Let them peek around.”
They look at the netbook and call me the next day to tell me there was a crack in the mainboard. 265 bucks to fix it. I try explaining them that the newest model of this now three and a half year old netbook is 350 bucks, so although he offers to take out the hard drive, I decided to take it with me, and bring it back to my normal computer repair people, and let them put the HD into a usb shell so I can get my thesis out.
I leave the computer there overnight. Guy calls me up the next morning around 8 (woke me up, lol…), saying “Hey. That other guy straight up lied to you. He never opened this. The DC jack just needs to be resoldered, there’s nothing wrong with the motherboard. I can do it for $100 something bucks. You want that instead?”
So my netbook is working once again. I’m happy. I check the BBB website out of curiosity, and find that skeezy laptop shop has an F rating for over a dozen unresolved complaints, and the place that did end up fixing it at has an A (as well as a ‘+’ which I guess they paid for, based on the replies here!). So, while a complaint may not have solved anything, this could have been an easy red flag to spot much earlier on in the process. :smack:
[/Anecdote]