I not only drop some change in pretty much every time I pass one, I usually make sure I’ve always got change on me this time of year. Hell, if it’s really cold, or if I’ve seen someone be nasty to the bell-ringer, I usually buy 'em a cup of hot chocolate to boot.
I will never give the Salvation Army money. Their anti-gay policies and activism make me ill.
I must not be paying attention, I hadn’t heard of that. Do you have a link?
Anyone, except gay people. They’ll even spend lots of money fighting that.
Yeah, like I’m going to donate to those beggin’ bigots. Never have, never will.
I have, and will continue to. Our local SA has great homeless mens services, not to mention a first time offenders program for young kids who have a brush with the law. We also donate most of our house hold goods to them because they are so helpful to battered women establishing their own households, fire victims, etc.
I don’t give change, I give folding currency, at least $1, when I pass a kettle.
I just checked out the SA website, and read their stance on various things. :mad: I am VERY tempted to write a note declaring my sexuality, speak bluntly about my views towards bigots, wrap a penny in it, and drop that in their bucket. I can’t stand bigots, regardless of who they feed.
So did I and I think I’ll stop giving them my change. I might buy the person ringing the bell a cup of hot chocolate or something but I cannot, in good conscience, donate to an organization that I know is bigoted against homosexuals and opposes abortion due to “believing in the sanctity of life” but refuses to take a stance on capital punishment.
Bigots and hypocrites. No thank you.
I never have, and I didn’t even know about the whole gay/abortion stuff. When I don’t have money (more often than not), I give my time to people who I feel will benefit most from it. On the occasions when I do have money, I give it to Susan G. and the SPCA.
I give them a dollar every time I pass a kettle.
I have always given them a buck or two several times during the holidays, but if they’re out there campaigning against gays, I’ll drop that practice right quickly. Anybody got a link?
BTW, the United Way is a pack of thieves and so is the Shriners, so avoid them, too.
Here you’ll find where they stand on a number of issues.
I’m with Otto, but I’ll add that I especially don’t contribute to anti-gay political organizations dressed the the trappings of religion.
Why are y’all so surprised? They are, after all, first and foremost a Christian denomination (and a conservative one at that). The Salvation Army began during one of the religious Awakenings in America, when there were tons and tons of Christian organizations devoted to preaching the Gospel and helping out the needy (particularly reforming addicts). Although some old aspects of the Salvation Army are not as evident today (street-side preaching, preaching prohibitionism), their ministry still remains strong, despite the fact that most of the Christian ministries and organizations that rose during that time are now not existant.
To repeat, the Salvation Army is a religious organization: they are not non-denominational as they are a denomination themselves. Therefore, certain beliefs based on religious beliefs are to be expected. (And I, for one, do not believe one can say that such-and-such religious belief is right or wrong. Religious beliefs are too complex for such black and white characterization from the outside.)
I wouldn’t be so swift to call them “bigots” or “hypocrites.” My experience with humanity teaches me that we should be slow to judge and characterize but swift to see the good. For that matter, I don’t see any organization that has its act so put together, does so much good for so many people, and asks for such less. So get off your high horse unless you can do better. Besides, everything does not revolve around one’s sexual orientation - even if they are not gay-friendly, they still do a lot of good. They are a god-send (literally, in a sense) for the needy.
And to make it clear I have no hidden agenda: I am gay, and I approve this message.
WRS - a think a Pit thread’s a-coming.
I can’t speak for anyone else but I was in my mid-teens before I ever knew it was religious in the first place so I constantly forget that the Salvation Army’s religious at all and think of it almost exclusively in relation to thrift stores and people ringing bells around Christmas time.
And you can say I’m on a high horse all you like but as someone that was told to get out of my own (okay, my mother’s) house because of her conservative religious views against my bisexuality, I don’t care. I’m not going to treat their volunteers or employees like dirt for trying to help people in need but neither am I going to allow them to think I approve of their bigotry by giving them my money.
Also, for what it’s worth, my life doesn’t revolve around my sexuality as no one outside my friends and family are aware that I’m anything but straight. It is an issue I care about though and I will not endorse people that would choose to discriminate against me and others like me.
Aesiron - I like you, and since this is (always) a sensitive topic, I’ll just end with saying that each religion and religious organization has its rules, morals, standards, and the like. Each person exists in his/her own world, with reality defined by their definitions of reality - notice that it is not the other way around.
I used to believe that is incomprehensible for a mother to turn her child out for any reason. Well, not any more. Parents are known to kill their children for commiting sins (honor killings in Asia), turning their children out if they engage in sin (whether promiscuity or getting pregnant). My own parents threatened to kick me out because I had changed my religion. Are their actions correct? I honestly do not know. I am not a parent, so I will not attempt to judge a person in whose shoes I cannot stand in. Yes, it may be a wishy-washy way to go about life, but at the same time I also understand that beliefs, morals, and actions change radically from person to person, and one cannot always call them wrong because they could not know any better.
I know very religious people who hate gays. I know very religious people who love gays. I have seen religious arguments supporting homosexuality. I have seen religious arguments attacking homosexuality. I have been in the middle of that hurricane myself - and all I have learned is that as long as good is being done, I will not question who, why, how, or so on. Sufficient is the evil of the day itself.
There is enough pain and suffering in this world as it is - much of it caused by humanity against humanity, and in this regard God may not exist for all it matters but the pain and suffering would still exist and will so as long as humanity survives - so I have nothing but admiration and encouragement for those who try to alleviate in some form or another the suffering of others.
My Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is very well known for its anti-gay and anti-gay marriage stance. I was punished by the Church for acts I did contrary to their morals. And yet I continue to support it with my attendance and chequebook. This is because I have seen some of what the Church does for the needy - I helped at their storehouse where they give needy people food, clothes, and necessary household goods free of charge. The good this accomplishes is very tangible. Tangible - this is what I focus on.
If I donate to some charity promising to feed a child in Africa, or send an ambulance somewhere, or educate an illiterate person - most of which, by the way, seem to be religiously-motivated - I don’t know where my money’s going to. But everyone knows
When I said that one should not make sexual orientation a central issue, I’m referring to those who make acceptance of homosexuality a litmus test of suitability - if they accept, the person will support it. Life’s too short and sufferin’g too rampant to begin short-listing well-intentioned people. If they do good, support them. If they make someone’s life easier, support them.
Finally, I fail to see how the Salvation Army is engaging in any active campaign of discrimination against gay people. If you’re referring to internal policies, well that’s a sticky issue itself. I do not think as outsiders we should judge an institution’s beliefs or morals. They don’t affect us, and they are none of our business. Everyone has the right to be wrong. We can disagree with an institution’s beliefs and morals, but as long as their fruit is good, then why not support that aspect of it?
WRS/Thû - in this world full of evil, any good in any form is like the bright flame in a dark room
The Salvation Army has a long, long history of homophobia; they’ve even been known to fire (or not hire) people whom they **suspect **might be gay or lesbian.
There are plenty of non-homophobic charities out there. They should be rewarded for their tolerance.
Just to be clear, I do not support the Salvation Army not because of their stance on homosexuality alone. Of the 20 positions they list on their website, I do not agree with their stance on 15 of them.
I’m not trying to tear them down, I’m not trying to destroy them. Yes, they do good works. I don’t think anyone’s refuting that. But we as individuals have no obligation to support an insitution who’s position(s) we don’t agree with. Each individual must decide for him or herself how much of a deviation is permissible to make support permissible within his or her own gestalt.
I don’t like the fact that the Masons (and therefore the Shriners) permit only women. But, having known and talked to many Masons and Co-Masons and Shriners, I have determined that that is the only position they hold that I cannot accept. That, coupled with the fact that they helped my son so dramatically this summer, and will do the same for any child of any gender and religion with no proselytizing, is still OK for me personally. I choose to support the Shriners in whatever little ways I am able. Perhaps for some other person, not allowing women would be a deal breaker. For me, it isn’t.
For me not agreeing with 75% of an organization’s positions is a deal breaker. I have no legal, moral or ethical obligation to support any charity I don’t want to.
Agreed, WhyNot.
While abortion and homosexuality are the only two issues I mentioned in my post, I do not agree with most of them but felt those were the only two worth mentioning. After all, refusing to support an organization because it doesn’t like porn, booze, and gambling would just be insane but when those minor issues are combined with ones that I *do *feel strongly about, like the right to choose, gay rights, and the abolishment of capital punishment, I find myself not wanting to donate to them.
Next year, assuming I have the money (I don’t this year), I’ll write a check to a charity more in line with my ideals. They can and probably do do as much good as the Salvation Army and, in the end, that is all that matters.
Don’t like the Salvation Army? They helped feed and clothe us back in 1997. Whatever you think of them, they did more to keep us going than any of you bitching about them. Red Cross included.
Maybe we’re a different breed where we appreciate and don’t forget those that helped us in a time of need. We’re a proud and stubborn group and hate, HATE having to ask for outside help. We just didn’t have a choice in this. The RC and SA helped make sure we all had warm clothes (it was still early May and no gas service) as well as hot meals.
I give any spare change every time I pass a kettle. I’ve seen what they use the money for, and I wish I could give more.