How physically fit do you have to be to be in special forces?

Factual Questions
1

In term that those of us who’ve never done these things can understand.

For instance after years of hearing about how tough West Point is, I just read - in Absolutely American - that the cadets have to run two miles in something like 16 minutes. That, BTW, is embarassing. I did a lot better than that in my 30s with very little training, and I’m not a natural. But at least it’s a standard I can understand.

But whenever I read about SEALs, Rangers, etc. I read stuff that sounds like they do these 25 mile hikes with 60 pound packs, or they can go 60 days with only two hours of sleep daily. I have no idea what they’re talking about, or who these people are. Does anyone know specific standards for any getting into or staying in any of the special forces?

2

How old are you? This would play a part. Also, they’re not only looking for physicaly fit, but mentaly fit. From what I understand the mental stresses are tougher, if not more rigourous than the muscle part7

Just from watching the TV stuff.

3

There are specific minimums to get in the door for SF training. They vary by branch of service (by SF I’m talking Army Special Forces, Navy SEALS, Recon Marines and USAF PJs/CCT…feel free to add any others that I’m forgetting from the US armed forces).

I have never applied for nor attempted to be part of any SF unit, but I have worked with many of them in the past. What I got from them is that the physical tests were just the starting point. In order to successfully complete training you must be strong mentally. You must be able to continue to push your body longer than you ever thought you would. It’s easy to quit, and much more difficult to continue.

But to answer your specific question, the requirements to enter Navy SEAL training are (a lot of stuff like age, vision, background check, etc) plus:

  1. 500-yard swim using breast- or side-stroke in 12:30 or less.
    Ten minute rest
  2. Minimum of 42 pushups in 2 minutes
    Two minute rest
  3. Minimum of 50 situps in 2 minutes
    Two minute rest
  4. Minimum of 6 pullups (no time limit)
    Ten minute rest
  5. Run 1 1/2 miles in boots and long pants in 11:30 or less.

Now remember these are the minimums to be considered. Most people applying for these slots will do MUCH better than the min on these tests.

Once training starts expect to be pushed to your endurance limit daily (for the first few weeks at least).

4

As I said I was in my 30s long ago, so I wasn’t asking because I was thinking of a career change. I was just seeking to do my part to fight ignorance.

5

Special Forces (capitalized) is the US Army Special Forces, aka The Green Berets. However, when you say “special forces” (lower case), it can mean any of the units mentioned above. Oh, and lets not leave out 160th SOAR!

For Special Forces, you’ll have to be Airborne Qualified or volunteer to go to Airborne School. Then, to be accepted to start training in the Special Forces Qualification Course, you have to pass Selection. Selection is a grueling, month long course. There is a minimum fitness level one must be at to stay. But it uses an overall scoring method. So if you score better in one event, you can score a little lower in the others. But this is just to get to stay. A person who scores the minimums is much less likely to pass all the little tasks, tests and trials.

To even start the Selection process, an applicant will need to score at least a 229 on the Army PT Test, without scoring less than a 60 in any one particular event.
There is a copy of the scoring sheet here: PDF!!!

Regardless of the applicants age, he will be graded in the 17-21 age category.

As you’ll see, the slowest a person is allowed to run is 2 miles in 15:54. But, of course, that’s just to stay. The person will still be required to perform and meet all the other standards during the course. I won’t go into details about what goes on there, but walking for 60km or so with a 60lb ruck sack is not just “something you read” :wink:
Also, land navigation is a big important part of SF. So not only will you be walking around with all that weight over long distances, you’ll be alone in the forest with just a compass (no gps) and a map. Nothing ever gets cancelled for weather, either. So if there’s an ice storm and all the trees are exploding from the cold and limbs are falling on people and people are loseing toes from hypothermia and shit. . . you will still be required to perform. Well… you’re always allowed to quit if you want.

Once, or I should say “if”, you pass that successfully, you get to actually start your Special Forces training. There are 6 phases of training in all. The last of which is SERE school. Google “Special Forces Qualification Course” for lots of good information. Also Google “SERE” and “SERE C” for some info on that course. It’s no summer camp!!!

Oh… and don’t get a DUI while in the Q course. They’ll send you packing, and getting back in can be even harder than getting in the first time.

25 miles with a 60lbs ruck is nothing, really. It can be done repeatedly for several days with no blisters.
60 days of only 2 hours of sleep daily. . . that’s only a slight exageration of Ranger School. There will be pleanty of nights where you get 4 hours or so of sleep. But keep in mind how physically demanding the days are and how little food the soldiers get.
But ask anyone whose done these schools in the past, they’ll tell you
“The Schools are Getting Easier!!” :rolleyes:
Everyone always seems to have gone through “Back whhen it was hard” :smiley:

6

Thanks for the info. I guess there’s a limit to how much info there can be in terms of other standards, since the challenges are unique.

7

No kidding, since you have to be an NCO to attend the Q course and reduction in rank is pretty much the mildest form of punishement given for a DUI. Unless you’re a Sergeant First Class (E7), reduction of two grades (not uncommon in my experience, 15 years ago) will make you a Specialist (E4) or below and ineligible to attend the Qualification Course. Once you are again promotable to Sergeant (E5), you can reapply.

8

sewalk, nah E-4s are allowed in the course as well. But they will graduate with PLDC and BNCOC completed, so promotions will come fast after that.
However, the Army is becoming so PC, that pretty much the worst crime you can commit is a misdemeanor DUI. Either that, or get caught drinking underage…
Even if a person gets no article 15 and loses no pay or rank, if he is removed from the course for an “alcohol related incident”, he will still need to obtain a waiver and get special permission to finish training. And this is after waiting a year to do so. . .
I’ve seen people take swings at their 1sgt get in much less trouble than 20 year olds who are caught drinking. . .

9

It’s not just the Army either. In the Air Force, in my career field, you could almost graduate, and if you get caught underage drinking, you’re out. No ifs, ands, or buts.

I personally think the drinking age is stupid, but that’s for another thread…

10

That’s what I said. As an old soldier, you should have recognized the inferrence:

That means Specialist(p), if you’ll remember.

11

In my day (through 1990), Specialists could attend but had to meet all requirements for promotion to Sergeant. Back then, that meant having completed PLDC. Hell, in my brigade, PLDC was required for promotion to Corporal.

12

I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of days and now I have one more question. Not worth starting a new thread. Hope some of you guys are still following this.

It’s about sleep deprivation. Let’s say you have a guy who is great in all the other areas: endurance, strength, personality…but he can only go two or three days on minimal sleep. Does he get kicked out? If so, is that a good thing? Are there likely to be that many missions where it’s necessary to stay awake for such a long time? Or is the ability to function without sleep something that all good candidates can learn to do when they have to?

13

I’d say it’s a learned thing. Even in Basic Training, soldiers learn that their physical limits can be overcome and extended. Sleep deprivation is something you just deal with. The Army just ain’t like other jobs. There is a great sense of cultural immersion and quitting just becomes harder. You just keep pushing.

You also learn to grab sleep whenever you can. You almost learn to sleep while marching or standing in formation. I swear that I can sleep sitting straight up with both eyes wide open when pushed hard enough. I can still manage 3 days straight at age 36 and I’m in terrible condition. In my younger days (20-21) anything more than about 4 days caused me to start hallucinating, though. I was always kind of exceptional around other regular soldiers but I would expect most SF guys would be tough enough to match me.

Once, we were tasked as OpFor for 10th SF Group’s SERE school. We tracked and captured students that “escaped” from the laager and took them back, being none too gentle. I saw guys that had been through six or seven days of heavy sleep deprivation and I thought they were only one traumatic event away from permanent insanity. That look in someone’s eyes is not easily forgotten. Even in that kind of shape, though, those guys were a bitch to capture and subdue.

I still remember the words of my sqaud leader: “Dammit, Walker! I swear there is some button in your ass that knocks you smooth out when you sit down in that HMMWV!” My best times in the field was when I was humping a M60 machine gun. I pulled every security detail that came along and so forth and got little sleep at night but once we started rolling down the road, I was guaranteed some zzz’s. Ahh, the simple pleasures in life!

14

OK, old war stories here. The New Army is probably much different.

I was drafted in 1966, and the army had just run out of basic training facilities. So, they sent 20 companies of draftees to Ft. Bragg, NC, to be given basic training by the training facility there. That particular facility trains the 82[sup]nd[/sup] Airborne Division, and the 8[sup]th[/sup] Special Forces Group.

We didn’t run for five miles a day. We ran any time we went from one place to another. Walking was not allowed. We occasionally marched, at 120 steps per minute, when on parade grounds. Once and a while we stood still for a bit. But, for the most part, it was either run somewhere, or do whatever it was that they did there. What they did there was generally shoot, or climb, or crawl, or get yelled at by the toughest looking guys that I ever saw in my life, before, or since. A hundred push ups a day was a minimum, although you were allowed to fall to the ground in exhaustion if you couldn’t help it. Not that they were nice about it, but you could fail, and still keep up with training. Ten pull ups before each meal, in uniform with boots. (Same deal on falling down.) None of that was part of PT, or physical training. That was different, more intense, but much more progressively designed.

And that was not Special Forces Training. That was basic training, the way that the Special Forces thought you should do it. The Twenty five miles a day to and from training sites was not our forced march component. We had a whole day set aside for that. Pack up a full kit, which weighs about 30 pounds, since we didn’t carry ammo. We marched out fifteen miles, fired 100 rounds for score, threw five hand grenades (LIVE!) crossed a rope bridge, crawled 100 meters under live fire above our heads, climbed a cargo net over a 15ft wall, and then got to march home the same fifteen miles. That was not Special Forces Training. That was basic training, as the Special Forces saw it. (After all, you’re a soldier; you gotta get to the battle, assault the objective, gain the objective, and move into the available tactical positions.)

Tris

“They’ve got us surrounded again, the poor bastards.” ~ Creighton Abrams at Bastogne ~

15

Sure, but one does not have to be a SPC(p) to attend. Hell, there are a butt load of PFCs in the course right now too. And doing VERY well, I might add.

A person who is caught falling asleep too many times will fail, yes. People who have trouble staying awake will do anything to help themselves. I’ve seen people use instant coffee like snuff or dip, put tobasco under their eyes, you name it.
But there’s more to overcoming sleep deprivation than simply not falling asleep. That statement about being “great in all other areas” is kinda misleading. The candidate will be observed under sleep deprivation. If he can only go two or three days on minimal sleep, it’s not like he just instantly falls asleep. He wont go from “super performer” to sleeping that quickly. It’s more complicated than that. His physical performance, and his endurance will be poor. He’ll be dragging ass and confused. His personality will be altered. He’ll be more easily frustrated, impatient, argumentative and aggressive. That’s what being sleep deprived does. It does much more than make you want to sleep.

I think it’s a good thing. I’d say the majority of missions involve teams oberating on minimum sleep for at least a couple days. And yes, I think it can be learned. Half of it is conditioning your body. The other half is understanding the effects it’s having on your brain and your personality and finding out how to best counter these effects.

16

It is like the other areas… they don’t give you a sleep deprivation test to see how long you can stay awake. They put you through some extremely demanding missions and then score your performance. If you fall asleep, you’re probably going to make a mistake that would cost you points… and not just you, it will probably cost others on your team as well. That’s why teamwork is so important. And this isn’t just a test for the individual, by the way, it’s a test for leaders as well. Part of a leader’s job is to make a rotation so that everybody gets a few winks now and then. After 3 days running on no sleep, even the best team just gets stupid and sloppy.

It’s important to train under conditions of fatigue and sleep deprivation. Your enemy will go to a huge amount of trouble to get you into that state, so that they can kill you. Thus, you’d better be prepared to work under those conditions.

17

I am very much out of shape ( It’s my own fault, but I blame society & The Dope.)

[quote]

  1. 500-yard swim using breast- or side-stroke in 12:30 or less.
    Ten minute rest
  2. Minimum of 42 pushups in 2 minutes
    Two minute rest
  3. Minimum of 50 situps in 2 minutes
    Two minute rest
  4. Minimum of 6 pullups (no time limit)
    Ten minute rest
  5. Run 1 1/2 miles in boots and long pants in 11:30 or less.

**

I could easily do this, on no sleep, it it weren’t for the sit ups. Gah. I hate sit ups.

18

Things have obviously changed. There was a requirement to have completed PLDC when I was around. I don’t know if it was statutory or de facto but I do remember it. I also talked to my best friend (who attended the officer course in 1983 or 1984). He also remembers the same standards. Of course, the Army had a much larger pool to sieve in the 80’s so entry standards for many schools were higher than today. SOCOM hasn’t shrunk nearly as much as the rest of the military so it stands to reason that admittance standards would be eased for schools like SFQ.

19

The Special Warfare School now has its own NCO Academy. So everyone attends PLDC and BNCOC while in the Q Course.

… Though it may be more accurate to say “Everyone ‘receives credit for’ PLDC and BNCOC while in the Q Course.” There really isn’t a seperate phase or class for those schools.

20

Every person has a personal endurance limit that determines how far you go between waking up ,till the sandman comes a calling. But its almost like a muscle in that you can keep pushing and pushing , till your body adapts to new sleep/wake cycles. Comes down to a matter of will power, and its a filter to determine the ones that will continue the mission regardless , or the ones that take the easy way out and say I quit.

I think after the AF pilots/Gibs , spec forces are the next most expensive personal in the armed forces, so selection is probably just as picky. Its cheaper for a lot of countries to have Special Forces capable units rather than dedicated personel.

Declan