How responsible should dog owners be held when their dog kills someone?

[WV_Woman]

Back in 2000, before my baby was born, our neighbors had a doberman. There is a fence between their backyard and mine.

That little bastard was so vicious, we could not go into our own backyard even though he was tied up. We were too afraid he would jump the fence and attack us.

The night before we brought the baby home from the hospital, he did get loose. Killed one cat on our front porch, killed another in another neighbor’s yard.

What if he had gotten loose just a few hours later, as I was carrying the baby into the house for the first time?!

They got rid of him after that, thank God. I was starting to try to figure out a way to send him on up to Doggie Heaven.

And yes, I would have done it too. I’m no animal hater but there comes a point where people need to stand up to these dog owners and say enough is enough!

Something is wrong when a #*%(#&% mutt has run of an entire neighborhood.

[Guinastasia]

Now, look. I’m NOT saying that kids should just run up and start petting strange dogs, or kids have a right to wander into yards that don’t belong to them.

However, correct me if I’m wrong, there is a difference between an animal snapping a child’s hand because said child pulled the dog’s ears, and a three year old being mauled to DEATH by a dog simply for being in the same area.

[Triskadecamus]

Joe,

That guy you just shot, when you came home and found him in your house had a warrent. You shot a law enforcement officer in the line of duty, without any possible legal justification. It’s murder.

And if the dog attacks the same guy, that is a crime, too, even though the dog can’t read.

A ten year old who dies while tresspasing is not guilty of a capital offense, and although I will admit that it doesn’t seem any more likely that your dog would kill the kid instead of you, it doesn’t change that fact that killing tresspassers is not a right.

Tris

[Henry_B]

It takes months and years for a judge to decide if a serial killer should get capital punishment.

But to kill a trespasser - no problem.

So I put out a mines in my garden this very night.
And then, tomorrow morning when little Natascha, the neighbouring girl, 4 years old, stumbels to my garden, (I have flowers in many colours, she likes them), she will just blow up to pieces and furtilize my garden?

Nice laws that You have and Your attitudes are just beautful!

P.S. And of course I have a sign in many languages that says: “NO trespassing!!!”
Accuse the parents that did not teach her to read in time!

[Joe_Cool]

How ironic. Somebody in a country where just ten years ago you could be shot for being discovered about town without proper documentation, or for possessing a bible or an extra pair of blue jeans, talking about how bad our laws are.

What a laugh.

Triskadecamus, we all know how easy it is to play “what if” and make up ridiculous scenarios to make any position into a worst-case. Watch:

That guy who walked in your front door is a pedophiloc cannibal, and he just killed your wife. Next, he raped your baby daughter, then fried her up and made sandwiches – on your own bread. Sure is too bad your dog was tied up so thoroughly that he couldn’t protect them, isn’t it?

The day I shoot a police officer, I’ll deal with the consequences. In the meantime, see if you can find the staticstics on misidentified targets: civilian shooters vs. police shooters. That should be fun and educational for at least one of us.

Oh, and keep off of my property unless you have been invited, and you won’t have to worry about either my dog or my guns.

[Joe_Cool]

s/pedophiloc/pedophilic/

[Odesio]

*Originally posted by UDS *
**

It’s not a question of taking reasonable precautions to ensure that the dog isn’t a danger to the general population, it’s a question of taking reasonable (meaning “likely to be effective”) precautions to ensure that the dog isn’t a danger, full stop.

**

Actually it is a question of taking reasonable precautions. If I take reasonable precautions then I shouldn’t be held criminally liable.

**
People could be in your back yard without being trespassers. A firefighter, for example, who enters to extinguish a blaze in your house when you are not there.

**

Sure, they could be. However it is very unlikely that anyone in my backyard without permission is not a tresspasser. Taking reasonable precautions doesn’t mean ensuring perfect safety.

**
You might argue that the risk that there will be a fire in your house and a firefighter will enter your back yard and your dog will attack him is, all things considered, a pretty small risk. Indeed it is, and on that basis you might be happy to bear it as a dog-owner. But you can’t insist that the firefighter should bear it. **

So I guess people shouldn’t have pets. After all I could have a fine gentle dog but that fire could have him riled up and he may panick and bite the firefigher. Then I’d be arrested for assault.

Marc

[zen101]

Would it be in bad taste to take the dog to the funeral and rub the dog’s nose in the coffin stating in a stern voice “No fido! No No! Bad Dog!”?

[wring]

actually, MGibson the issue isn’t how frequently a fireman or EMT person or some one w/a legitimate need to enter a property might have to, it’s “is there a safe way for them to do so” and in the case of both a booby trap and a dangerous dog, no, there isn’t. Neither would be able to discern the difference between a fireman and a burgler.

And, you don’t have the right to create a hazard for fire fighters, police, EMT’s etc.

If you are there in control of your dog, then you’re able to discern the difference.

[Odesio]

*Originally posted by wring *
**
And, you don’t have the right to create a hazard for fire fighters, police, EMT’s etc.

If you are there in control of your dog, then you’re able to discern the difference. **

Then I guess we shouldn’t allow anyone to own a dog. The dog is going to be a hazard to emergency service personel just by being there. After all do the EMTs know this dog is friendly or a viscious killer?

Marc

[WV_Woman]

Speaking of people doing their jobs and dogs and stuff.

In 1998 I trained to do the Census. Spent a whole week learning what to do, etc. Told the lady training me, in passing, that I was afraid of dogs that weren’t tied up.

So she called me up after training was over and fired me.

The Census apparently wanted me, for 9 bucks an hour, to walk into the face of a pit bull in order to get someone’s information.

A few months later a 70 year old Census worker was … you guessed it, mauled and killed by a dog.

[Henry_B]

Hi Joe_Cool!

Quote: “How ironic. Somebody in a country where just ten years ago you could be shot for being discovered about town without proper documentation, or for possessing a bible or an extra pair of blue jeans, talking about how bad our laws are.
What a laugh.”

I understand that You mean that if I am writing from Russia, I should not write in this tread. Or I should not write about Your sincere believes and Your laws?
If I write from England? Or Canada? Or Arkansas? Is it OK to tell my opinion? Or only New Jersey?

So if You, Joe-Cool, go for business to Guatemala, do You still have the moral right to post?

If You have not noticed, this InterNet and that is world-wide.
And because we all try to learn, what Radio Free Europe told us about the American rights, I just recommend these teachings also to You. Just read Your Constitution.
About free speech.

If You want to know about Russia killing people, well, they killed millions.
So logically we that come from the rest of the world, can kill a few, or how? No judges needed, we just decimate a little bit…, make our rightful share.
Did this make Your attitude better?

Now Russia has come to Capitalism, to the stage where USA were between 1880 - 1920, bandit-capitalism.
There are the old czar laws, the Soviet laws, the new Russian laws and mainly there is no laws at all, except the street law where everyone is taking the law in their own hands.

Here are many nationalists that claims: “Do not interfiere in our business, laws etc.!”
But non of them I met in the Net has not understood that it is a world-wide forum.

Thank You for reading.

[wring]

MGIbson the issue was ‘creating a dangerous environment’ by leaving a dangerous dog in a yard etc. The point I’m making is that you would be held responsible for the dogs actions. You wish to take the risk, have at it, but don’t expect your defense of “well, if you weren’t trespassing, it wouldn’t have happened” to protect you.

[Henry_B]

Hi Joe_Cool!

Quote: “How ironic. Somebody in a country where just ten years ago you could be shot for being discovered about town without proper documentation, or for possessing a bible or an extra pair of blue jeans, talking about how bad our laws are.
What a laugh.”

I understand that You mean that if I am writing from Russia, I should not write in this tread. Or I should not write about Your sincere believes and Your laws?
If I write from England? Or Canada? Or Arkansas? Is it OK to tell my opinion? Or only New Jersey?

So if You, Joe-Cool, go for business to Guatemala, do You still have the moral right to post?

If You have not noticed, this InterNet and that is world-wide.
And because we all try to learn, what Radio Free Europe told us about the American rights, I just recommend these teachings also to You. Just read Your Constitution.
About free speech.

If You want to know about Russia killing people, well, they killed millions.
So logically we that come from the rest of the world, can kill a few, or how? No judges needed, we just decimate a little bit…, make our rightful share.
Did this make Your attitude better?

Now Russia has come to Capitalism, to the stage where USA were between 1880 - 1920, bandit-capitalism.
There are the old czar laws, the Soviet laws, the new Russian laws and mainly there is no laws at all, except the street law where everyone is taking the law in their own hands.

Here are many nationalists that claims: “Do not interfiere in our business, laws etc.!”
But non of them I met in the Net has not understood that it is a world-wide forum.

Thank You for reading.

[YiBaiYuan]

Well, let’s just get a few things straight about MY rights and privileges:

1. I want to be able to make any choice I want.
2. I don’t want you to try to restrict me in any way.
3. I don’t want to be held responsible for any negative consequences of my choices.
4. If someone else gets hurt as a result of my actions, that’s too bad; it’s their own fault.
5. If somehow I get hurt as a result of my own actions, I will sue everyone around me.
6. If you don’t agree with my Rights, then you’re a Commie/Nazi.

What’s wrong with this position? It’s the same attitude held by many others.

(Note to the clueless: This is sarcasm.)

Also, someone please alert Newark NJ emergency personnel of a certain address and advise them “Stay the Hell out of his yard, and you won’t Die”.

BTW, I’m not in favor of standing by while everybody and his brother trespasses on my property, but I don’t believe the solution is to automatically and indiscriminately take their life. And as has been pointed out, dogs and booby-traps are indiscriminate.

PS: Henry B, good retort!

[UDS]

Marc

I should make it clear that I’m talking about civil liability, not criminal. For criminal liability the same standard of intent should apply as for any other crime.

From your point of view, the likelihood of a firefighter entering your premises and being attacked by your dog may be slight. But look at this from the firefighter’s point of view. He enters people’s premises all the time. The risk for him of having to bear the consequences of dog attacks without compensation is much greater than the risk for any dog owner of having to compensate for attacks carried out by his dog. Thus the risk is more evenly spread if we make dog owners rather than firefighters carry it. And it is borne by the people who have created it.

This is not a moral issue, and I am not saying that people should not keep dogs. They should just not keep dogs if they are not willing to accept the risks thereby created.

Your suggestion that the firefighter should let my house burn while protecting neighbouring properties will not always be practical. I live in a terraced house.