Think you’ve missed the point about why Carney was elected. It was hardly a brilliant, or enthralling choice; people didn’t like or trust Poilievre.
And yet his party received their highest percentage than in the 4 previous elections and more than at any time the Liberals had under Trudeau when they won. How do you account for that?
A vote increase of over 2M for the Cons. Totals: 8.6M for the Libs, 8.1 for the Cons. 43.8% vs 41.4%. It flies in the face of your statement that someone isn’t liked or trusted gets that many votes. Enough that would have won handily in any other of the previous 4 elections. All you can really say is that 43.8% didn’t like him. Conversely, 56.2% didn’t like or trust Carney enough to vote for him, either.
I mean very impressive except they blew it,.
Why do you have to be rude and sarcastic about every single comment? Did I say Carney is brilliant? Emperor’s new clothes? Really? Show me where anybody as said anything about Carney that would warrant a comparison to the Emperor’s new clothes. I actually don’t like some things he’s done but your constant hammering on about him, along with talking down to everybody about everything doesn’t inspire me to have any sort of normal conversation about anything, never mind the topic of this thread.
If your goal is to shut down conversation, you’ve succeeded.
Fair comment. I’ll try to do better.
No, I don’t think that was the intent of that comment at all. Opinions are fine, as long as they’re fact-based and informative. Since you found and bumped this thread on June 30 to inform us how incompetent Carney is, you’ve made 56 posts in it, sometimes two or three in a row. It’s about a third of all posts since then, I’m sure more than any other poster. And they’re relentess, baseless, and malicious attacks against Carney, and spout such nonsense as Carney doesn’t want a trade deal with the US.
We get it. You hate Mark Carney, and you hated Justin Trudeau, and no doubt hated every Liberal leader before them, and have made that repeatedly clear many, many times. I think what some posters may be suggesting is that hearing the same thing over and over again is getting tedious.
No you don’t get it. I don’t hate Mark Carney. I don’t think he is as competent as everyone seems to think he is. I hated Justin Trudeau because he was a nepo baby and a hypocrite and only got elected on his name and Canada is now in the mess it is in because of him. Cretien would never have done the crap he did, neither would have Martin, and certainly not Harper. So, Carney not only has to deal with Trump he has to deal with the mess. He hasn’t started off well in either case.
How about you respond to your own post that I bumped. You said he was elected to do certain things in it. Has he fulfilled that, in your opinion?: How’s Carney doing, Canada? - #39 by wolfpup
Moderating:
Just a reminder for the thread, please do not make things personal. Passion is fine, but this is a P&E thread, not a Pit thread. A couple of posts have come close to attacking the Poster, not the post. Let’s dial that back. No names, no warnings, just a nudge to keep the thread on track.
Basically because the CPC are no one’s second choice. The election turned on voters that had been leaning NDP or BQ a few months before the election casting votes for Carney. Some of them were natural Liberal voters whose second choice party was NDP or BQ who were disillusioned with Trudeau but happy to return to the fold for Carney. Others were actual NDP & BQ supporters who were sufficiently alarmed by Trump and distrustful enough of Polievre that they voted strategically for their second choice: Liberals.
It’s not really a mystery. That’s the way FPTP multi-party parliamentary electoral politics works.
Also, while it might seem from the viewpoint of the right that Carney was being hailed as the great Liberal saviour, and that was the sentiment amongst plenty of the Liberal core, I don’t think that explains nearly all of the lefty swing voters. There was also a strong “No to conservative populism my god do you see what’s happening in other countries” sentiment that was just pure anti-CPC and only supporting Carney out of expediency, not because he was seen as a super great choice in his own right. They saw Polievre’s style as borrowing from Trump and noped out of there just as hard as they possibly could.
You might think Polievre’s nothing like Trump. You might even be right. But they didn’t, and they voted for their second choice party to keep him out of power.
I think this is largely correct. But I also think that Carney is widely respected for his economic expertise and his former roles in major investment banks and national central banks, which gives him a serious gravitas that most politicians lack. And made Polievre look like a comically incompetent Trump wannabe in contrast.
Well yeah, but true lefties think the banks are evil, so that’s a mixed bag.
I know from what the media was saying one might be forgiven for thinking that voters saw Carney as the hero riding in on a white horse, and there was some of that sentiment. But there was also a chunk of voters that were in a sense voting against Trumpism, and Carney just passed the “good enough, he’ll do” test (where Trudeau wasn’t anymore).
I get the distinct impression that the amount of hatred against Trump is so visceral that we end up cutting off our nose to spite our face. I fear even if Carney wanted to make a reasonable deal his base will turn on him for doing so.
He’s between a rock and a hard place at the moment. Support western farmers and drop the China tariffs which would seriously piss off Trump and likely jeopardize the upcoming Usmca negotiations with Trump exiting that (likely in any case), or support the US and the EV industry developing in Canada keeping the tariffs at the increase of western alienation.
Carney seems like the adult in the room, especially in comparison to both Trump and Poilievre. That’s why he won. That’s why PP lost.
Given that he’s well on the way to destroying democracy in the US, what level of hatred of Trump do you think goes too far?
Speaking as a concerned USAian …
Once he does destroy democracy here, it seems clear his hostile nasty approach to the world will necessarily include fucking up Canada as much for the fun of it as for the supposed “benefit” to the USA or to himself.
His 51st state nonsense is just a random feeler. But like any self-aggrandizing imperialist, once he feels he’s consolidated power here, the only place left to go for more ego satisfaction is elsewhere. And nearby elsewheres are especially attractive.
IMO the optimal strategy now for Canada and Canadians is unrelenting absolute hostility to all things trumply and a full-court press to cozy up to anyone else even slightly like minded. Write off the USA first, not after they declare economic (or real) war on you a few years from now.
Unfortunately >75% of our trade is with the US with alternative markets no where near able to pick up the slack for decades. Taking this tack, which mirrors the elbows up crowd, would result in the cancelling of the USMCA, it would result in hundreds of thousands of job losses and kill any auto sector jobs left in Canada. The standard of living would drop precipitously.
It would destroy the country. The west would immediately blame Carney, and rightly so, and seek their own route. Quebec would as well.
That’s the US’s problem, let them deal with it. We have to survive until the crazy is gone. But here’s the thing. If he manages to rehome industry it is unlikely that anyone who follows him will stop that trend. Remember it was Biden who put the tariffs on China that we matched. So, I think we have to get used to the idea that the US will continue to be protectionist for the foreseeable future.
We’d need to pivot fast and focus on drill, dig, mine, grow. Be the resource powerhouse we should have been.
That’s quite a clownish conclusion.
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Western separatism is dead. 100% based on right-wing nutter grievances which can never be satisfied until the Conservatives control parliament. Extremists are what they are. “The west” is really a small percentage of Albertan nutters with even a smaller number of Saskatchewanians.
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I see no hostility from Carney and his team. Can you point to one thing that they have done? If you want to condemn Canada’s negotiations, vague attacks won’t do. I see Carney’s team working hard in the face of a destructive sabotaging partner.
ETA: I say, if the US wants to bleed, let them bleed. Canada might have economical difficulties, but it isn’t due Carney’s actions. Canadians know this and are waaaaay more supportive of Carney then Americans are of Trump. Give it a year and Americans will be even more angry.
Canada can accept shitty terms today, or just wait until the Yanks are more desperate (and hungry for trade) tomorrow.
I should also add that winning doesn’t truly satisfy these nutters. It will only placate them for some time. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Right-wing nutters will always seek to push for more power and they will never stop.
Look at what is happening down south. Fascists never stop. They are always trying to be more oppressive, controlling, and will break every rule and over step every law to do it. Scapegoating minorities in the population and lying constantly in full view to increase the public’s complicity in these actions.
These “Western” separatist nutters are 100% pro-Trump fascists. They see and crave the chaos currently being done by Trump (and demand that it is replicated here). I, personally, believe that if we are to have any chance at fighting creeping right-wing fascism, we must first recognize it. Fascism grows through public habituation, compliance, and ultimate complicity. Never give them an inch.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just a hothead. But I see horribleness behind this movement. It is very Trumpy, and fashy. Something I’ve grown to despise.
Few Canadians are big fans of Trump - our least stable 10%.
My claim is the vast majority of the population does not think that the CBC is guilty of biased reporting.
You are in the minority, and you need to realize this.
That is all.