Yes, the CROWN (federal government) had pushed this project through without doing the proper consultation. This is exactly what you’re proposing above with a vastly shortened approval process. You’re giving us an excellent example of why this is a terrible idea. Thank you.
ETA: What is it with the juvenile insults against Trudeau, who is not even PM anymore? What’s the actual point of this? Do you think it strengthens your argument?
Meanwhile, looking forward instead of backward:
Carney announces 2nd round of major projects.
North Coast Transmission Line (NCTL)
Ksi Lisims LNG
Canada Nickel’s Crawford Project
Nouveau Monde Graphite’s Matawinie Mine
Northcliff Resources’ Sisson Mine
Iqaluit Nukkiksautiit Hydro Project
I don’t care about what a private company does using its own money. I care about what the government does using our money. As should you.
As you’ve agreed the issue was with the government not being able to follow their own regulations, maybe they should simplify them so they can follow them in a reasonable timeframe? Maybe not penalize companies for their incompetence by fixing the process?
Further to this. I said two years should be the maximum approval time. Funny enough, so has the PM: PM announces major projects office
From the article: “The MPO will accelerate projects by creating a single set of conditions, thereby reducing the approval timeline for projects of national interest to a maximum of two years.”
So, tell me how he expects to do this without running afoul of the courts? Why can’t the approval process be like this for all projects?
ETA: What is it with the juvenile insults against Trudeau, who is not even PM anymore? What’s the actual point of this? Do you think it strengthens your argument?
A reminder to those who continued to vote for the clown even when he was proven to be a clown now, based on that same sound judgement, think they have competently voted in someone better for the job. It’s a reminder to question their judgement.
Who’s doing what with whose money is unrelated to my point. You do seem to have a talent for ignoring the point I actually make and respond instead to some imagined strawman.
You stated that the government spent more on the pipeline than “it normally would have cost.” But that means you’re taking Kinder Morgan’s projected cost as gospel, as the baseline for what the pipeline would have cost if they’d built it. Which is laughable. Kinder Morgan’s costs would have ballooned too. Maybe not as much as the costs did for the government, no way to know without going back in a time machine and playing it out, but there’s approximately 0% chance their costs wouldn’t have gone up, probably significantly, and likely by at least a significant fraction of what the costs did under the government.
And that means your 5x factor is either fantasy BS or you’re believing that the private sector doesn’t have cost overruns. Which is quite adorable, like a newborn puppy imprinted on a heroic amalgam of brave oil executives, scampering after him with worshipful eyes as he strides heroicly through the thickets of government regulation to build a gleaming mansion of economic prosperity on a golden hilltop.
It never ceases to be amusing that people such as yourself simply cannot resist mocking Trudeau for having been a drama teacher, while supporting a party that chose as a leader a guy whose highest level of private sector experience was as a receptionist at an insurance broker. And now even still can’t shut up about it when their party leader has no private experience whatsoever, having gone straight from college into Conservative Reform Alliance Party roles while the leader of the Liberals has a resume as long as my arm.
Teaching is a worthwhile career, and provides more value to society than most other jobs. That Trudeau was a much shallower person than his father had nothing to do with his work before he entered politics.
P.S. I never voted for Trudeau, of course, as he never ran in Saskatoon West, nor did I ever vote for the Liberal candidate here while he was leader. Hopefully that demonstrates my impeccable judgement.
Yes, anyone can underestimate project costs and in the building overrun initial estimates. It is not a sole purview of governments. You made an obvious point that no one was arguing. If a company is inefficient that is their problem and they will likely go out of business affecting a small number of people. When a government is inefficient it is our problem and affects everyone.
Kinder Morgan had already met all the requirements they needed to proceed in a project that was essentially twinning an existing pipeline - This was Project 101 territory.
They then saw they had a hostile environment with the BC government objections and courts withdrawing the government’s approval. Wise(r) heads said this is untenable.
Typical project overruns for projects of this size and understanding that this is a known right-of-way would run ~10-30%. So, you want me to use 4x the cost with all of it coming out of tax revenue? That make you happier that the government is only 4x less efficient rather than 5x?
What is more important to ask is ‘why’ the government spent so much and understand the extra costs were entirely of its own making.
I mean, a good chunk of the cost overruns occurred during the post-Covid global supply chain disruptions when “typical cost overrun” was a quaint notion, but do go on.
If Kinder Morgan had been able to start when the initial approval had been granted the project would have been largely completed by this time. Again, fully the governments fault and demonstrating why long delays make building projects even more difficult.
Regarding the trope that the federal government built this project as a favor to Alberta or to save it for the national interest.
They bought the project for one simple reason: To avoid being sued by Kinder Morgan and the resulting and continued press that would outline their incompetence.
Kinder Morgan had a fully approved project. They spent billions. Then the courts threw out Ottawa’s approval not because of anything Kinder Morgan did, but because:
This deprived KM of current and future revenues and would have resulted in potentially multibillion dollar settlements and years of great press for the opposition to use against them.
Add on all the other parties that could have sued and it was a legal quagmire that they didn’t want to have to swallow and explain. So, I guess we should thank Trudeau and crew for 1. Building the pipeline and 2. Saving us from having to pay avoidable legal settlements.
So, Canadians have:
A brilliant use of $34 billion. And to be fair to Carney, even if he were genuinely pro-pipeline in Canada (he’s certainly pro-pipeline everywhere else), he’d still be terrified to touch one here. TMX proved that a Canadian federal approval is worthless if the government can’t meet its own legal obligations. That’s why, when Poilievre challenged him on his enthusiasm for oil and gas in other countries, Carney couldn’t give a straight answer. The truth is simple: it’s safer to build pipelines anywhere else in the world than under Canada’s regulatory chaos.
I think you’re going to need to pick a lane. You bitch about a process that takes too long. Then you bitch that Carney is fast tracking projects.
As I keep saying; THINGS ARE DIFFERENT NOW. Carney was elected to do things differently in the face of the unprecedented shit-show from down south, where a former ally and trading partner suddenly announced an intention to destroy our trade.
And that’s just what Carney is doing. This thread is about what he is doing RIGHT NOW. It’s not about “Let’s show how much we still hate Trudeau”
Do you not understand that THINGS HAVE CHANGED? Carney is a new PM, and is facing these new challenges head on. I realize that hatred of the Liberal Party of Canada is part of some people’s DNA, but Jaysus, pick a lane.
You’ve mistaken me for someone else who was saying that projects should take 15 years for approval. I expect that that person doesn’t actually want any projects to be approved, but that is my opinion.
Carney says he wants his specifically chosen projects to be approved in under 2 years. I’m asking why only those projects? Why can’t all projects be done that way? I’d guess that it is politically good for him to be seen to actively push projects forward rather than just fixing the process so that all projects (and Canadians) can benefit from simplified and efficient processes. PP promises to do this, so I support him.
It is great that Carney is using his PM powers to push projects forward and they look like worthy projects on the face of it. I question why he needs to do so. Fix what is making him having to do this. I criticize this and am baffled why you wouldn’t either? Find the root cause and fix it.
I understand that things always change. If you are efficient, understand your processes, make them adaptable and better than the competition (other countries) you will have business build in your country regardless of what is happening. If you start out with hands tied behind your back and bitch that others take advantage of that, it isn’t their problem, but yours. Companies are building pipelines in the US, even Canadian companies. Not one carbon tax in Canada is preventing the oil from being produced. All that and other unreasonable regulations do is ensure Canadians aren’t benefitting from that production. Insert your favored industry in place of oil and gas.
PP also promises a pony that poops skittles. I suggest you continue with the "I hate Trudeau and so should you " message into the next election. Along with “Canada is broken, we’re a shit-hole country”. It’s bound to work next time.
In the meantime, we’ll just keep posting about how things are moving forward.
You are conflating the current PM with someone else. With the 2nd highest budget in Canadian history, there a whole lot of ponies in there. Unfortunately, they aren’t pooping skittles. The are delivering the same output that Liberals have be shoveling for over 10 years.
I don’t know much about infrastructure projects, but I work directly with one government agency and when we need their review, input, and approval it can take time because there’s only so many employees available to review. So we set up priorities and they tackle them in due course.
It can take years to get employees with the skills required to address the questions and projects we bring to them. These are experienced specialists, not someone you can easily hire off the streets.
I imagine these projects being selected for fast-tracking are taking into account available staffing levels as well as the various benefits of the projects themselves. It would be horrible mismanagement if staffing wasn’t part of the equation and I’d hope any government would take that into account.
The bottlenecks come from contradictory legislation, duplicated reviews, political intervention, court challenges, and the federal government repeatedly failing to meet its own legal obligations that they created.
Projects like TMX weren’t delayed because “specialists weren’t available.”
They were delayed because Ottawa botched Indigenous consultation, mis-scoped the environmental review, and let multiple agencies re-review each other endlessly.
Fast-tracking projects shouldn’t be about hiring more bureaucrats. It should be about fixing a broken system.
Carney isn’t going to fix the problem by promoting his pet projects. He is just emphasizing that the system is broken.
Except, based on your posting history, you don’t want Carney to fix the environmental review system. You want him to just remove it and let industry do whatever it wants.
What a whiner. Funny, that’s the exact same words I use to describe PP over and over. Carney ar least talks like a grownup.
I do? Where did I say that? Find one post that says I want companies to be allowed to do whatever they want? Just one.
Find a post where I said we should get rid of all the regulations? Just one.
You want someone to pat you on the head, give you a cookie, and say everything is alright, is that it?
Good news for the Port of Churchill project. Not a done deal yet, but looks like it is moving along: great federal/provincial cooperation here.
“This strong collaboration highlights the Port of Churchill Plus as a priority and will help move it from consideration to implementation,” the joint Carney–Kinew statement reads.
“Significant progress has been made to date and this will only continue to pick up speed.”
Liberal budget passes, even though they are in a minority situation, and the Bloc and Conservatives vowed to all vote against it.
I guess in the end, nobody wanted a new election over the holidays.
Two NDP MPs — Lori Idlout and Gord Johns abstained, which gave cover to the other NDP MP’s to vote against as a matter of principle. The NDP really, REALLY does not want an election while they are in the middle of a leadership race.
Conservative MPs Shannon Stubbs and Matt Jeneroux, also abstained. Matt Jeneroux did not cross the floor though, as rumours were swirling around that he might.
I don’t think the Conservatives want an election either. I think they’d lose seats and they know it.
ETA: For Americans to understand, this is how it goes in Canada to pass a budget. If you don’t have the votes, then since it’s a confidence motion, the government falls and there is a new election. NO screwing around with closing the government, starving the people, messing air travel and blaming each other for the mess.