How should a school deal with pantsing?

In My Humble Opinion
81

Well, there might be an issue since it occurred on school property, while the school was ostensibly “in charge” of the individuals involved, no? In loco parentis and all that?

Probably not a major crime in this instance. Perhaps as an analogy I don’t think the school ought to call the cops every time there is a playground scuffle, even tho that might legally qualify as assault.

But I CAN understand why a school would not want to put itself in a position where it could later be accused of not taking all necessary steps if they believe a crime was committed on school property during school hours.

Recently there were a couple of situations at our local middle school. I think in one a kid had a knife, and in another a kid was accused of writing a “hit list” of his enemies. I believe in one instance the school handled it internally - and was loudly criticized. So in the second situation they over-reacted IMO and called in everyone short of the national guard.

And I think Dang made a decent point on the previous page. We hear of so many insane instances where cops are called if a kindergartner draws a PICTURE of a gun. Seems curious that schools tend to jerk their knees so strongly and immediately when certain bright lines are crossed, but not others. (NOTE: I have NEVER been a fan of zero tolerance policies.)

I’m curious to hear more form KRM about how she and her son discussed this. How big of a deal does KRM think this is, and how big of a deal does she think it is that her son doesn’t?

82

Sounds to me like assault, but not sexual assault also (absent more information). Given that elementary kids can get expelled for having a toy gun at school, it’s unbelievable that people are calling for a 1-hour detention. Arrest, talk to a cop, face a court date for assault, no sexual component. I’d love him to owe some serious community service as a result.

83

Just once, I’d love to have a debate that didn’t involve one side comparing the other’s position to Nazis, Republicans or rapists.

Frankly, I don’t care if what Pantsy McPranky did is technically illegal. I’m saying that calling the police is overkill for something that is just a lame stunt.

Unless the girl wants to, then it’s her right and no one should stop her. But as a school official, I would only give this kid an hour of detention.

84

Speaking as a teacher, I think this is a bad idea, for four reasons:

  1. The girl in question is going to be under tremendous social pressure from her peers to laugh it off as if it’s no big deal, unless high school has changed a lot from my days. If it really is a big deal to her–if she felt humiliated by the incident and feels unsafe–she’s likely not to say anything, for fear of even more stress. But if she sees the bully get off with a hand slap, that’s going to make her feel even more unsafe, making her school experience for the next few years that much more miserable.
  2. Other potential victims of pantsing, especially folks for whom this would be humiliating, will similarly feel unsafe at school if they know that their clothes can be pulled down with very little penalty. The ripple effects of this may be significant.
  3. If we treat the boy in question like a child, that means we need to be teaching him still–and it’s a terrible lesson to teach him that he can engage in illegal public humiliations of other people with impunity. It sounds as though he desperately needs a lesson in the fact that his actions have serious consequences
  4. Other potential perpetrators of pantsing will also be watching what happens to this boy. If they see that they can get away with this kind of bullying, that’s a terrible lesson to teach them as well.
85

Just a good deal of Whooshing that’s all (if you read words/tone in the differences between the two answers). I was just mocking the two varied responses from the range of severity from those saying boys will be boys, and others going “He’s a dangerous threat!” because I’ve always seen the lighter punishment happen, honestly who calls the cops on high school kids for pantsing? Boys Gym Lockers would be under 24 hour surveillance for this stuff then.

If you want to end it at that, then that’s fine.
If you actually for some odd reason WANT to hear my rambling rants on Private vs. Public school’s treatments of the matter, here ya go, but I’d rather it not really hijack the thread since it was meant only in sarcasm as an aside in my initial comments:

My favored punishment leans towards something more in between more towards the Private school way of thinking though. But then again, I know what’d happen in that case:

Though honestly, that’s what it feels like would happen. In the private school, I went to, there’s NO WAY a school is going to endanger a senior with a college acceptance because that’d besmirch their 98.9% students go on to college. So the worse that’d happen is the kid would get suspension (In school, because that doesn’t have to be reported to colleges), and then the parents of the Daughter told if they want to take this further they can outside of school. Though if that happens, most likely the 18 year old has a lawyer, and the Parents of the girl will either understand that they don’t want to ruin the kid’s life either, and thus be socially ostracized by the other parents with children (My God, how uncouth! Did you hear what she made him do?) or the girl would be pressured into dropping the charges because yes, she was being a bitch and ruining his life.
And if the Parents DID try to fight it, the school would either ask the 18 year old to withdraw from the school (so again, not expelled or suspended or anything like that. The student just left on his own volition halfway into the school year), if the Girl had some standing.
Or they would simply stop taking the 16 year old girl’s money, and she can go find another school, if the 18 year old’s parents were on the school board, had 3 more younger siblings and was donating money to the school.

That’s how life works sometimes.
Don’t really know what would happen if it was public school so for that one I just took a wild ass guess at the most severe consequence (the SCHOOL actually enforcing punishment onto the child), rather than it being “optional” by the parents. And if he DID plan on going to college and he loses it all because of this single incident… well we can all sleep better knowing justice was served and this kid was probably destined to community college anyways, and wasn’t bound for anything big. And hey, there’s always the military! While the private school kid gets to go college, take his classes, and become a successful lawyer, because his school took care of him rather than punishing him to prevent him from going to college, while preserving it’s 99.8% statistic. :rolleyes:

What’s the difference between the two boys?
If you asked me, I’d say nothing. But I don’t think one should be overly punished so that he can’t make something of himself. But I also don’t think the other one should get special treatment because of his money/family/and private schooling.

But… Life’s not fair like that, and more often than not (at least for the private school side of things), that’s how it works. I don’t like the system, but I can’t exactly understand why people are calling for such severe punishments, when this happens quite a few times and nothing ever comes of it in private schools.

86

I wonder if part of the issue isn’t that the term “pantsing” sounds so comedic, like a silly little adolescent joke. If you actually think about the reality of a 16-year-old girl getting her pants pulled off unwillingly in public, surrounded by teachers and peers (some of whom potentially have cell phones equipped with cameras and internet access), that’s not so comedic or silly.

I’m not sure if calling the police is warranted, but some kind of heavy-duty punishment is in order, here. At least a week of suspension or something along those lines.

87

Well that’s why we need more information. Was she wearing baggy pants that were barely staying up of their own accord? Was she wearing tight jeans that required some serious tugging to get down? Was this a “pantsing” that came about because a kid’s pants were already falling down or was this something that should be called assault with the girl being violently shaken?

Hypotheticals do us no good when we’ve got an actual witness to the events who could fill in details like this.

88

This is why I’d look on this prank differently in a school as opposed to elsewhere:

Behaviour in school is a bit different to behaviour elsewhere. School is a place where lots of people get used to minor-league mucking around, and sometimes those kids don’t know where to draw the line.

As to him being an adult assualting a minor - well, maybe he’s 18 years and three days old. If he’d committed the same act a week ago, would he suddenly be a different person who should be punished in a completely different way? Saying ‘an adult assaulting a minor’ makes it sound like a 30-year-old attacking a pre-teen.

That doesn’t mean he should get off with nothing - but a suspension, length depending on the school’s behaviour policies, would be a good start. Someone else suggested banning him from some social activities like the prom (you could add a suspension from sports teams into that), and that probably would be a bigger punishment than almost anything else at his age. I’d only suggest as much as that because it sounds like this could be part of a pattern of behaviour that needs changing.

89

Because it basically is a silly little adolescent joke? I don’t mean to minimize the importance here. Some little girl cried. She’s probably going to be traumatized for years over people seeing her pink panties. I say suspension or detention with maybe a good stern warning from the local PD youth officer.

Sorry, but I’m just not into this new trend of overly-criminalizing every minor infraction. At this rate half the students in school will end up in juvie or on a sex offenders watch list by the time they turn 21.

Assault:
a) An unlawful attempt, coupled with apparent ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another; or
b) An intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

Battery:
a) Willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another; or
b) Actual, intentional and unlawful touching or striking of another person against the will of the other; or
c) Unlawfully and intentionally causing bodily harm to an individual.

90

Hamsters ate my post.

You’re drawing on the Loki’s Wager fallacy here: perhaps objectively we can’t point to the exact border between two distinct states, but we can recognize that there are two distinct states, and we can establish an arbitrary but consistent border between the states that we’ll use for multiple purposes. Here, we’re consistent (at least within legal culpability) with considering 18 the arbitrary bright line between childhood and adulthood. Too bad for this guy that he falls on the adult side of the line; it’s time for him to give up childish things.

91

I would like to point out that the “kid” is only a Jr. in high school at present, he is not a graduating senior, he is not in danger of losing scholarships on the moment. For those of you saying essentially that he’s still a child; will you say the same thing next year when he is 19 years old and does the same thing to another 16 year old girl? Sure sounds like it.

I swear to og reading what some of you have written, I believe you would have done quite well living on the island in “Lord of the Flies.” Perhaps even reveled in it.

92

A prank is throwing a water balloon at someone or putting a fart cushion on someone’s chair. This is definitely worse.

If they weren’t friends playing around then I would demand his expulsion were it my daughter. 18 year-old? I knew at age 12, and probably younger, that that sort of thing isn’t cool.

93

Was she wearing granny panties? The punishment should be worse if he exposed her granny panties.

94

As a mother of a daughter, I seriously think the suggested punishments are extreme. A bad joke shouldn’t follow someone throughout their lives.

Certainly no police involvement. I would think one days suspension would make the point to the other students that this stupid prank has a penalty but I can’t get behind the tar and feather crowd here.

95

I don’t see the issue here. The 18 yr old is at least guilty of assault. I would assume additional charges were filed, but assault seems where it would start. The school isn’t involved except to call the police.

I guess the 18 yr old could argue that it was all in fun-but his opinion doesn’t count. Unless the victim speaks up and says she consented (hopefully in advance), he is off to the pokey.

96

uh folks, this isn’t a suspension/expulsion issue. Unless the female was a willing participant (and at 16 I suspect she couldn’t be), this is at least a criminal case of assault and battery. What the school might choose to do is the least of the issues here. This one is (should be) headed for the district attorney. Perhaps the county has a diversion program for first offenders, but the school isn’t involved.

97

to clarify, a school has to enforce rules for the proper operation of the school. Dress codes, no running in the halls, listen to the teacher, etc. Things that are not in any way criminal. Break those rules and you risk getting suspended/expelled.

That isn’t what happened here. One person physically assaulted another person. That is a crime. The school is not part of the justice system. They don’t get to decide what laws get enforced and what laws get ignored. The only role of the school here is to perform their legally required duty and call the police when they have knowledge of what appears to be a crime. They have a supervisory role over the students and therefore have a higher standard of care than some random person walking down the street-that is they are LESS able to not call the police than a member of the public.

If after an investigation the police and the DA decide not to bring charges, that is their job. Not the school’s nor the 16 yr old. She might inform the police that it wasn’t assault but a preplanned joke. If so, fine. The law is satisfied. But if the 18yr didn’t have advance permission to touch the 16yr, that is battery. The fact that it happened in school is unfortunate for the other kids around them, but irrelevant to the facts.

98

Unless things have changed in the three years since I was in High School, one could successfully pants an individual (male or female) without unlawfully touching them and without the parents getting into a frenzy about it. Having been pantsed and having pantsed, I have to fall very solidly on the “one hour detention” side of the discussion. Calling the police, really? In my High School the one police officer on duty in town would’ve come down and been pissed at the school for wasting his time. I can’t imagine how schools with actual crimes and actual worries have time to deal with stupid crap like this, I know we didn’t.

99

That would be assault.
I wonder what if it wasn’t a girl he pantsed. What if it were a prank on one of his teammates on the basketball squad? Would it matter?

100

Indeed. They should turn their focus to all those coaches who keep groping at the butts of all their male athletes. Usually that’s like a good 20 year difference in age!