How should I act to get someone not to shoot me?

Great Debates
21

There are limits to how far being aware of your surroundings will help you.

Sometimes multimillionaires in estates with private security forces are robbed or murdered in their own beds.

But in general a great many crime victims in this country are 1) in a bad part of town or 2) criminals themselves.

Obviously you should be alert to a certain degree at all times, in the good parts of town and the bad.

But you should use common sense and not put yourself into a situation where you are alone with no one anywhere around you in a really high crime area.

Strategies like this won’t keep you 100% safe, it’s life, and nothing is guaranteed and nothing is 100% safe. But in general you can decrease the probability of yourself becoming a statistic if you use some common sense in taking notice of your surroundings and not putting yourself in dangerous situations.

One of the things that really gets me irked is when people talk about rape and about how nothing is ever the victim’s fault.

Well I agree, we shouldn’t say it is the victim’s fault because in any case victim’s of sexual assault are going to be very emotionally damaged and we should treat them with a certain degree of psychological compassion.

But at the same time, people need to be told, women in particular, that you have to be aware of your surroundings, what time it is, what situation you are putting yourself in.

It’s never really the victim’s “fault” that they are sexually assaulted. But unfortunately many times the victim could have taken action earlier on that would have prevented it if they had been aware enough of their surrounding and their situation.

Again, not always, but many times common sense will keep you protected and I think everyone should be reminded of that.

In society we are far too often more worried about making sure the victim realizes it “isn’t their fault” than we are teaching people how to lower their probability of becoming victims.

22

Can I request a straw poll, of those who are offering ‘avoidance’ advice: who has actually experienced (directly or to somebody close to you) an armed robbery (or other firearm crime)? Those answering negatively, what are you drawing your advice from?

23

See, there you go again. It’s not random, and it’s not rational, necessarily. You may well be killed for not having any money, too much, not enough, you look funny, whatever. Stop trying to analyze this and ascribe some sort of motive that may or may not be there. They might kill you for the fun of it. Criminals aren’t necessarily crazy, but it helps. Point being, most sane citizens are quite amenable to following whatever Mr. Crook says while staring down his firearm. The savvy citizen gets smart on how to avoid the situation in the first place.

24

But rape isn’t about sex, it’s about power. Sort of like armed robbery isn’t about stealing my wallet.

25

Please, stop teasing us, and give us your enlightened instructions on how to ensure we are never ever involved in an armed robbery.

I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic here, or not. But I though the antiquated feminism of rape=power was long buried. Rape=Sex. Yes, it’s horrible.

26

Eureka2 is right. Armed robbery ISN’T about stealing your wallet - or rather, it isn’t JUST about stealing your wallet, and that’s something it’s very important for “average folks” (like me, and most of the people on this board) to remember. There are lots of ways to get money illegally which don’t involve the risk of physical confrontation between the criminal and the victim: burglery, car theft, forgery, con jobs, check-kiting, etc. A person who chooses the armed robbery route generally does so at least in part because he enjoys the adrenaline rush he experiences during the confrontation.

Armed robbery is about power in the same way that rape is about power. The criminal wants the money (or the sex, in the case of rape), yes, but he also wants the pleasure of terrifying his victim and the feeling of importance that comes with knowing that (if only for a few minutes) HE’S the one giving the orders. He likes being in a position where he gets to choose whether his victim lives or dies. I suppose it feels like being God.

If someone holds you up and he has a weapon, by all means hand over your money - but be prepared for the possibility that the creep will go on to hurt you anyway,even though you cooperated, and be prepared to fight if you have to. If all the crook wanted was a few bucks, he’d have ripped off your car stereo, not your wallet.

27

there are several important tips that worked for me when a guy pulled a small caliber (25 maybe) automatic on me in the Oakland post office on sunday afternoon when there was just me and him.

  1. Dont look at his face, and tell him why you are not looking at his face
    (this will not be complicated–a straightforward “I don’twant to know you” will do.
    do not say
28

sorry

do not say: I know what you look like you’ll never get away with this.

When you are done giving him all your money (this is important: give him all your money–as it happened, at the time I had a bunch of change in my shirt pocket, so it was relatively painless, but don’t haggle…) turn around a walk away. He is not going to shoot you in the back at that point, and any further interaction is not likely to be productive of anything good.
My junkie’s hand was shaking badly and I did not want to be the unintended victim of his withdrawal symptoms

I am proud to report that I did not piss on myself, tho I would not think ill of me if I had.'t

and, of course, I didn’t get shot.

29

Did you tell the post office? They sometimes have video surveillance in the lobby area and might have been able to ID the man. If it had been a street crime, the local PD may or may not take action (beyond taking your statement) but the Post Office, being Federal, kind of takes a dim view of armed robberies on their premises.

Martin:

Uh, that falls under Situation Awareness, even if I didn’t touch on it.

30

A classmate of mine (University of Pennsylvania) was out for an evening stroll in west Philly (bad idea). She was approached by a knife weilding mugger who demanded money. She was wearing cut-off sweats that had no pockets. She told the guy she had no money, and no pockets.

She came to in the ambulance with an abdominal knife wound that was the mirror image of her appendectomy scar.

If confronted by an armed mugger I would only hope that there were sharp shooters poised and ready on the surrounding rooftops. I would then casually say whatever code words we chose to signal them to fire at will.

31

The best way to act to avoid getting shot is with situational awareness.

My training comes from defensive handgun courses. The first rule of a gunfight is to never get into a gunfight. The handy thing about that rule is that it works even if you don’t have a gun. Never allow yourself to get into a situation or place where you might be confronted with a gun. To do this you must live in “condition yellow.” This means constantly being aware of your surrounding, checking your six, observing people well before anything can become a threat. Most people live in condition white where they never become aware of peripheral threats until it’s too late. I’m trying to teach this to my wife because I am not happy about the security situation outside her office at night when she leaves. I have asked her to demand that management address this but I am teaching her what she can do. She does not carry a weapon yet as she lacks the training to do so effectively but I have given her a tactical flashlight and pepper spray. The light is extremely bright, enough so that you can’t look toward it when it’s shined in your eyes. Used correctly this alone can be enough to make a potential threat run for cover.

Second rule of a gunfight is not to bring a knife. :smiley:

32

Uhh, I hate to tell you this, but somebody’s been tampering with your magic 8-ball.

Daniel

33

I suppose it does, why exactly does it matter that you mentioned it? It’s not like we are having a contest about who said what first. To be honest I just skimmed this thread then posted my opinions on how to avoid being the victim of an attack.

I tried to structure my post so that people understand I’m accepted sometimes you will be a victim no matter what you do, but that if you take certain precautions you can greatly diminish the probability of being a victim.

@Whoever The motivations behind rape or armed robbery being sexual, monetary, or power is meaningless in response to my post.

My post was just explaining how you can avoid situations where you are more likely to become the victim of either of this incidents. The motivations behind sexual assault may be important in studying the criminology, but doesn’t do much to help us give some advice on how to avoid it.

In general be careful about being alone with men you don’t know very well, acquaintance rape is very common, you should watch out especially when alcohol is involved because some men who you don’t know as well as you think you do may do something they normally wouldn’t due to lowered inhibitions.

Again, I’m speaking solely about trying to be aware of the situation you are in, I’m going to say that many sexual assaults and armed robberies can be avoided if you just play it smart and use common sense.

Again, nothing is 100% safe, but you can lower the probabilities. And there are millions of people in this country so lower the probabilities enough and it’s mathematically not likely you will be the victim of such a crime.

34

Reductio ad absurdum: never leave the house. And brick up the front door. And all the windows.

You must be real fun to be around.

As I’ve hinted earlier in this thread, this is exactly how I behaved when living in a high-crime area. But our peripheral vision (“those guys are following us”, the exact phrase was said) didn’t help, when there was fuck-all we could do about it, stuck with nowhere to go. What should we have done then?

35

Oh, those BASTARDS…

36

Was this a high crime area in UK or other place where you couldn’t have gone arround with a conceiled weapon? Was this at night? Were other people arround?

37

It may not be an approved tactic, but that’s exactly what my grandmother did when an armed robber broke into her house. She stayed calm, faked a heart attack, and laid quietly on the floor until he left. She didn’t get shot.

38

I’m sorry you had to go through that. I sensed the sincerity of your post; it moved me, and I think your instructions are right on.

SnkSprt

39

The whole world at our feet, and no where to go.

I hate revealing my disabilities on this board, because each time I have done so I’ve been called on to prove it (even with photos, once!), or slimed and told I was lying, ad infinitem. It’s not comfortable. It feels like shit.

elucidator even propositioned making my name into an ad-hominum attack, archived in the SDMB as a homily… How fucking ever.

I have as part of my condition, a subset known as hypervigilance. I notice everything. Tjhis is the result of spending almost a year searching the roads for mines and booby traps, and searching the trails for booby traps.

I learned how to be alert, and I never missed one.

To this day, if I see something on the road, I notice the color, the location, it’s intrinsic value/danger, and make a decision based on my observations.

I have an almost complete socket and ratchet set, metic and SAE, that was recovered from intersections. I have stuff that woul;d blow your mind.

Last night, I pulled off the side of the main road and my wife got out. I told here: “Check out that penny in front of the car…” It took her three minutes to find it.

I notice everything around me. Threat or not. I classify it, act accordingly, and move on.

It takes a lot of brain power to bring it to the level I have (nio, I’m not bragging), but it has helped keep my self and my family safe.

That’s hypervigilance. It intrudes on your life, and makes you forget less life-threatening things. I can’t imagine living without it, but that’s me.

Most people I have encountered in the last 30 years are more alert about trying to score (and looking for cues), sexually or druggie.

If you want to feel safe, get to know your immediate surroundings well. Think: “What seems out of place?” and “What seems strange, contrived?” (like people walking behind you and stopping when you stop).

Awareness. 21st century Zen.

There’s so much to learn these days that anyone who doesn’t specialize within narrow bounderies (as I don’t) risks the ruin of overload, memory loss, aphasia, and I read he name of my condition recently but can’t remember it. Basically it is the inability to lay down in LT memory new memories. I can’t learn new stuff; I’m overloaded.

Thank you JFK, LBJ, Nixon and the V.A.

No sense whining (me) don’t do no good.

Giving tips to those unaquainted with such situations at least gives me an ego burst.

Followed by someone? Break their cover. Turn around on the pretense you forgot something. Walk up to them, chase them if necessary, "Excuse me, do you have a light?/directions?/address for a #####?/? etc.

Interact with them. make them your friends, then dial 911 when they are out of sight.

If they pull a gun, there are seveal techniques that might work, but each involves gaining their trust. To wit:

Victim: “Gee, I know what you mean. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to make any money nowadays. Consider this my share of fairness.”
or…
Vic: “It’s cool man, I’m on your side. It;'s the government that’s screwing us up.”

But, you gotta know:
[ul]
[li]Who are these guys? Professionals? Druggies? Kids ‘trying it out?’[/li][li]What do you think is likely to get them to CONSIDER you as a friend, or at least harmless, or not a threat?[/li][li]Please extrapolate from here. From what I’ve seen, dopers are mostly pretty smart. I have faith in ou.[/li][/ul]

I’m tired now, but it’s a start.

40

Give the mugger your wallet. As he’s running away, pull out the pistol that you should be carrying and shoot him in the back. Low, yes, but so is mugging. Retrieve your stolen wallet and leave the miserable bastard where he lies.