How should I act to get someone not to shoot me?

Great Debates
1

I’m putting this in GD since I’m guessing there isn’t really a factual answer to this one, but if anyone has any actual training/experience/knowledge relating to this, I’d like to hear it. (If an admin feels this is better off somewhere else, I’m sure they’ll move it.)

I’m wondering: if someone tries to rob you at gunpoint, what is the best way to act to avoid getting shot? Is it better to try to remain very calm so as to keep them calm? Or better to act somewhat scared so that they don’t feel like you’re any threat? (Of course, if someone’s robbing me at gunpoint I may not be able to help but act scared.)

Also, I assume if someone points a gun at you and says “Give me your wallet” the best thing to do is to just give it to them as quickly as possible. But what if you aren’t carrying a wallet or any money? (I’ve thought about this, because I don’t carry a wallet when I jog.) Should you just say “I don’t have a wallet”? Or turn your pockets inside out so they know you aren’t lying? Or offer them something else, like “I don’t have a wallet, but here, take my watch”? That may sound kind of silly, but I’ve heard of people who said “I don’t have a wallet” and got shot.

2

This isn’t a debate, and it’ll probably get moved to IMHO (IANAMod.)
That said, I’d go with batshit insane. “You want my wallet? Which wallet? THERE ARE WALLETS EVERYWHERE! THE BATS! THE BATS ARE KILLING ME!” Fake a seizure, etc.

3

I was watching some show about avoiding attacks like that, and they gave an example of someone trying to take your car keys.

The advice was something like, throw your car keys in one direction, then run in the other. The logic behind this was explained as

  1. There’s a 50/50 chance he’ll shoot at you
  2. If he fires, there’s only a 50/50 chance he’ll hit you
  3. If he hits you, there’s only a 50/50 chance it’ll be serious.

I don’t know, it’s one of those things that sounds good in theory, but…

4

If your older and can’t run away, fake a heart attack…clutch your chest, gasp and weeze, grimmace and fall down.

5

But the odds on each point aren’t necessarily 50/50, are they?

6

I can’t understand why someone would shoot you if you have no wallet. I mean, if all the person wanted to do was shoot you, why bother asking? They could just shoot you dead, then take your wallet.

Seems to me, anyone who holds you up for your wallet isn’t so interested in shooting you. They want your wallet; they don’t want to kill you, or they simply would; and since they haven’t shot you already, they’ve probably considered the fact that murder is a much more serious offense than robbery. If they can get your wallet without killing you, it’s really a better option for them. If you have no wallet, it just doesn’t seem logical to me that a person who asks for it first would shoot you only after discovering you have nothing for them.

Hence I would just be honest and say I don’t have one. I’d do whatever I could to prove I’ve got no wallet. If they ask for something else I’ve got, I’d give it to them without hesitation.

7

You’re actually trusting an armed robber to look at everything in a logical manner? This individual doing the robbing is likely quite desperate, isn’t so good at planning ahead, is in an extremely stressful situation, and may or may not be under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Marc

8

I have heard self-defense advisors say that the most important first step in a mugging is to quietly, calmly tell the bad guy that you will cooperate with him. Apparently the first moment of the encounter is the time that the mugger himself is most scared–he has to worry that you will grab his gun, scream, reach for your own gun etc. Telling him that you’ll give him your money helps keep him calm. Tell him you’re reaching for your wallet before you move. If he just wants your money he’ll take it and go. If you don’t have any money I guess you have to say so and offer to turn your pockets inside out. If you’re wearing running clothes he shouldn’t have any trouble believing you. (Although if you’re really worried about this happening it might not hurt to carry at least a couple folded $1 bills. Telling him “that’s all I’ve got” might be better than “I don’t have anything for you.”) Some advisors say you should drop your money and run, but I think that might depend on whether you have a place to run to. If you can quickly run, say, from a dark side street to a busy avenue, the guy probably won’t follow you. But if you’re inside a building, or in an isolated area, the guy might chase you just because you pissed him off. And if the guy sticks a gun in your face and says “come with me,” you’re in a whole different situation. But speaking calmly and moving deliberately seems like a good first step no matter what comes next.

9

The shooter has a plan, albeit a really simple one involving getting a wallet. If you don’t have a wallet his plan is out the window. In effect he has lost some control over the situation. This will lead to him being agitated, anxious, angry, etc. and more prone to the violent act he (or she, actually) has threatened. People do crazy s**t when panicked and panicked this person will then be.

This is simply a WAG from a doper who pretends to know stuff…but really doesn’t :smiley:

10

I can tell you from experience that when you’re being held up, all rational logic and psychological theorising goes out of the window. You become an automaton - and depending on your personality, you either do everything you’re told, or resist everything. Most people become submissive.

11

Like I said, that’s how it was explained. I’m also not so sure on the logic.

12

Someone robbing you at gunpoint probably just wants your money because they’re a crackhead. Crackheads have learned that asking nicely for money doesn’t work, so they bring the gun. They probably don’t want to shoot you, and as soon as they get the cash that’s it. They’re off to their dealer. The gun is just to scare you.

Now if they’ve got a gun and want you to get in a car with them, they’re probably interested in killing you. Anyone who tries that with me is just going to have to shoot me right there, because I am NOT letting them drive me out to the woods alone.

13

I have no answer, but I read the thread solely to see how urgent the inquiry was.

“Okay guys, I’m in Detroit, and I’m posting this from my Blackberry…”

:stuck_out_tongue:

14

The first mistake (and often the last) in dealing with crime and criminals is trying to ascribe logic or reason to their behavior. Armed robbery is serious stuff, although press reports seem to have an attitude of “no harm no foul” unless the victim is shot, and then it becomes a “botched robbery” or “robbery gone bad” (as opposed to a robbery “gone good”?)

There is apparently a certain morbid satisfaction derived by some, in having the power of life and death over another human being, while they steal your stuff, and it is the height of folly to hope that a suitably blubbery attitude will allow one to escape with their life.

The reality is the smart citizen avoids being accosted in the first place - that’s where learning “how to act” pays dividends, beforehand. If you’re wondering how to play victim, it’s far too late. Armed criminals are merely predators as far as you’re concerned, and always always always choose their prey on the basis of weakness - the weak, elderly, or vulnerable. Being aware of your surroundings is a good place to start, being armed yourself is along the same continuum. This is a difficult position for many to accept, but the reality is we are responsible for our own safety, along with our families and friends.

15

DISCLAIMER: To begin with, I want to say that the following strategy will only work if you are familiar with and in complete adherence to the laws of the district in which this event occurs. If something here is against the law, you will need to use another strategy.

Now then, when you are being held at gunpoint and being asked for valuables, do the following:

Look nervous, don’t make direct eye contact, say, “Sure, anything you say.” Then pull out your gun from your hidden quick-draw holster near where everyone keeps their wallet and blow them away first.

Of course, you also have to make sure you do it legally! That’s very important.

So, before you do this, make sure you bone up on your local self-defense laws. Know whether or not you can legally own and carry a gun, and if someone pointing a gun at you is sufficient threat to justify the use of deadly force in self defense.

But you don’t want to be shot, right? The only way to BE SURE is to control the situation. Guns are 3-5 times more likely to be used in a self-defense situation than in criminal activity, so the odds are on your side. Control. Cowering and submission is only more likely to get you killed. Ice addicts not only want your money, they don’t want you to ID them later.

To prepare, take some good classes in shooting for self-defense, and in the safe use of firearms; you don’t want to be shooting yourself or innocent bystanders. You want to be a *responsible * firearms user, not a wishy-washy freaked-out bleeding-heart liberal mama’s boy (or girl). It’s important to get to the range often, and practice.

Of course, you gotta be cool. KNOW that you already have the upper hand, and then either put the gun in their face (high, not in their mouth, that’s too low, right between the eyes, or in either eye is good), or right in or slightly above the solar plexus, so that one shot is all you need to drop them. Then empty your whole clip or cylinder just to be sure.

Make sure the ammo you use is either hollow-point or Glaser safety slugs. There’s no sense having the bullets come out the other side and risk hurting others. Again, be responsible.

Then, as soon as you are certain your target is neutralized, call 911. In the half hour it takes them to get there, make sure that when the police approach that they know you are no threat to them. Do not allow anyone else to interfere with the scene, you have to be able to prove that your life was in danger. Keep your gun in hand to keep people away. If some other citizen pulls a gun, place yours on the ground and tell them you called the police. If the police come, put your gun down… slowly… held by two fingers far from your body, at 90 degrees to the line of sight to the cop. No sense in going through all that to get nailed by some nervous rookie.

Oh, and call your lawyer. You’ll need him or her.

But hey, it’s better than being dead.

16

Make sure you read the message below.

Oh for Yog’s sake! Of COURSE I’m kidding! I just want to see the knee-jerk responses of those who know I support the 2nd amendment and EXPECT me to say something like this… Actually, the best way to avoid getting shot is to avoid going places where you’re likely to get shot. Don’t take chances with your life.

Be safe, not sorry. :smiley:

17

Well, then, if criminals cannot be expected to adhere to any kind of logic, it’s safe to assume their behavior is random. If their behavior is random, how can anyone prepare for what an armed robber might do? Literally any approach might be appropriate for a specific circumstance, and only luck will determine if the particular approach you took is appropriate for the circumstance you find yourself in.

So I may as well say to the robber “Hold it one second, will you?”, pull out my magic 8-ball, look in the little window where it says “drop to your knees & blow the guy”, and comply with the magic 8-ball. Who knows? The robber may be offended and blow off the top of my skull. Or, the robber may consider this fair exchange in lieu of a wallet, and let me go free once satisfied. Then again, the robber may allow me to finish, then still demand my wallet. In any instance, if I am not shot, I may stall the robber long enough for him to be noticed by nearby residents, who alert the police and rescue me while apprehending the robber.

In sum, if I cannot appeal to some form of logic to inform a decision about how I should behave when confronted with an armed robber whose demands I cannot immediately satisfy, the discussion is completely pointless and the outcome of any decision entirely up to chance.

18

Oh come on. Anyone who even watches TV or movies knows that everything is always fine until the undercover cop tries to sneak a shot in on the bank robber, then all hell breaks loose. That alone should tell you being armed doesn’t help.

:wink:

19

Wow…so you know more than the police, and the gun-crime specialists, who told me specifically that we’d “done everything right” (in terms of acting sensibly, not putting ourselves in danger, before we were attacked), and that it was just a freak chance that the two kids were there with the gun, and that if wasn’t us it’d have been the next people to walk down that road?

And how exactly are victims of carjackings, shopkeepers held up, etc supposed to ‘avoid’ being accosted?

(And BTW, once you’re looking down a barrel, there’s little advantage to being armed, as SnakeSpirit indicates :slight_smile: )

20

Step 1 is to not let them point a gun at you in the first place. You accomplish this by being aware of your surroundings through Situation Awareness. It’s not easy, it takes some practice, and don’t let people tell you that it’s “Paranoia.” Keeping aware of your surroundings, the people coming and going around you, may clue you in to the fact that a predator is singling you out from the herd before they can pounce on you.

Step 2 is to get out of that particular predator’s reach. Go into a public place, change directions, do whatever you need to do to escape and evade this person.

Of course, even professionals get ambushed, so it’s not inconceivable that, whatever your precaution, you wind up confronted with the wrong end of a firearm when you least expect it.

Fuhgedabout macho Rambo shit, like “taking the gun away from ther bad guy.” It works great on TV and the movies, but those folks have the scriptwriter on their side. Unless your attacker is a complete muppet and not paying attention, odds are that making a play for the gun will get you shot. Just relax, stay calm, cooperate and hope that the only thing he wants is your wallet/purse.

If they want you in a car, well then you’re definitely in a box. A fake heart attack, or perhaps an asthma attack, may spare you. Shouting for help may or may not, depending upon the mindset of the attacker and your relative isolation.

If you’re a Concealed Carrier and someone is already pointing a gun at you, IMO it’s too late. Quickdraw nonsense aside, either a stone-cold professional robber or a nervous twit are dangerous, if for different reasons.

But if you’re Aware of your Situation (before it’s a confrontation), then you have the advantage. The rules of the engagement are now two-sided.

I had a CC Permit in Texas for a while; I was working nights in a very bad part of Dallas, and several employees had been assaulted and robbed at gunpoint in the company parking lot. Technically, by company policy, firearms weren’t permitted on the premises, but I felt being fired was worth the risk of protecting myself (Barney Fife the Armed Security Guard wouldn’t leave the building).

I only had to flash my piece once to get rid of someone I thought was homing in on me (Flash=lifting my jacket so they could see my holstered pistol). Since they rapidly changed directions and left the parking lot, I think I was right and that I averted a potential mugging. Then again, the fella may have been coming up to me to ask if I had a set of jumper cables and would I mind jumping his car for him.

Considering that we’d had approx. a mugging/armed robbery per week for several weeks, I felt it was the prudent move. All the incidents had resulted in injuries; one gal was pistol-whipped and lost her eye even after she gave up her purse without a struggle. The security guards saw it on the CCTV and didn’t even call the police or an ambulance until she came back inside the building!

There’s no set answer as every situation is slightly different. Best move is to not let them point the gun at you in the first place.