Which brings into question whether it’s really a “law” in any practical sense.
It’s not that there’s no need to take it to court; it’s that the lack of enforcement mechanisms is apparently a way to prevent testing its constitutionality. It’s a trick.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m absolutely aware that my use of the flag is idiosyncratic. The flag code says specifically that non-waterproof flags shouldn’t be left outside in the weather; and that, if left out all night, flags should have a dedicated light on them. I do know that, and I chose to disregard it.
It’s no big deal. I’d venture a guess that 90% of people who fly flags don’t take them down, don’t illuminate them, leave them up when they’re tattered, and don’t buy waterproofed ones (yeah…like that rule was always in the code). It’s a non-issue in my opinion.
My grandparents on both sides of the family fought in WWII. My great uncle was killed fighting at Monte Cassino. I still feel that a flag is just a coloured cloth that serves purely as an identifying symbol. Nothing more. (“Ah, so that’s the Russian Consulate? Just as well they had their flag outside so I could identify it!”)
All this pomp and circumstance surrounding the “correct” disposal of a tattered bit of cloth just strikes me as, well, odd. But then again, it’s harmless and I can see why some people take it seriously, so as long as they’re happy, I guess…
I’m going to guess that in Australia you don’t have a “Pledge of Allegiance” like we do here. When I went to grade school, we began every day with the Pledge and a prayer (I went to Catholic grade school).
It’s “out of fashion” in most public schools now, but there was once a time when it was much more common and many people in my generation were raised to see the flag as more than just a piece of cloth.
I think it’s more than just “out of fashion.” I think more people are coming to the realization that a government-mandated universal loyalty pledge is offensive. If people want to express their loyalty to the country, good for them, but it’s no business of the government to craft loyalty oaths.
Returning to the topic of being neighborly while getting your neighbor to replace his flag.
Your representative in Congress will send you a flag that has been flown over the Capitol. Your location shows Farmington, MI, so I assume your representative is Joe Knollenberg.
You can go here to order a flag for a paltrey $16.05, postage and handling included, and it will come with a nifty certificate with your neighbor’s name on it certifying that it has been flown over the U. S. Capitol.
How could your neighbor not love that?
Your post reminded me that I took my flag down because it was so faded, so I just sent a check off to MY Congressman for a new one.
Ugh, I think I will have to find someone in a different jurisdiction. Knollenberg is a complete ass and I would hate to receive anything from his office.
But all in all, a great idea.
Well, my Congressman is John Lewis , and he’s a great guy! You can order a flag from his office here.
This is a sore point for me. I had a rather bad experience with overzealous “flag people”. My Dad passed three years ago and one of the things he liked to do was little wood working projects, one of the projects that he left us and we fondly remember him by is a little ornamental mail box that he made from wood and painted and decorated with various themes that he liked about being retired in florida- golf themes, a little plastic ibis that he made, etc. There was also a tiny flag about 6"X9" that he had liberated from a tiny wood stick flag and attached to a vertical metal pole to hang the flag vertically underneath the mail box. Somehow when he attached it, he had “reversed” the flag and put the union (the field of stars) outward, or facing the right, instead of the left. Now, I was in cub scouts/boyscouts, and I’ve participated in flag disposal ceremonies and know how to handle, display, and fold a flag, etc. but this little faux pas never really caught my attention very much, it certainly never offended me, and never stood for anything egregious symbolicaly… if anything it added to the character of this little art and craft piece of americana that remembers my dad and his unique abilities as an artist and craftsman. In fact, upon seeing it several of our neighbors asked for and commisioned my dad to make similar ornamental mailboxes for them.
What happened to the tiny flag is very suspicious. One day, I happened to see the plastic coated, metal pole and flag just hanging by a thread of plastic from the wooden upright of the mailbox. I examined it and from the location of the break and the condition of the materials I came to the conclusion that it had been forcibly broken. There was no other way this very sturdy metal core coated in plastic could have just spontaneously broken, we hadn’t even had bad weather or winds… I could be wrong, but it certainly seemed to have been maliciously broken and was quite suspicious to me. It is also in a senior gated community so it ruled out kids --but which neighbor, and for what conceivable reason, would someone do this in a senior community? It is a very conservative community with several veterans…would they have vandalized this mailbox because of the flag facing the wrong way…nahhh, they wouldn’t, or would they? My suspicions grew when not an hour later a gentleman who was in charge of flag disposal for the local VFW and just happens to live up the block came around and spontaneously introduced himself and offered an 8"X12" flag that he just so happened to have.
Not to disrespect this veteran and because I was unsure of the vandalism and who did it, I explained to him in no uncertain terms the history of the mailbox and what it meant to me and explained to him how very upsetting it was that “somebdy” had obviously vandalized it and noted that if there was a problem with it, perhaps somebody should have talked to us instead of disrespecting our property. I have no way to prove it but I am quite sure that “somebody” destroyed a very sacred memory for us because of the way this tiny flag was displayed.
It is ridiculous and quite nefarious. If anything, it made me lose respect for the “flag wavers” and what the flag stands for. They destroyed something that had great meaning for me in the name of some ridiculous etiquette.
I would say mind your own fucking business and let the man display the flag he wants to display… get over it.
Okay, I’ve never understood this bizarre obsession. Has no one ever stood on the other side of the flag and seen it flying in reverse? Jesus…people need to get some substance in their lives if this kind of bullshit causes them to commit misdemeanors. Fer fuck’s sake.
yeah, it’s a question that has been asked several times in GQ, but I’m told that on some US military vehicles and uniforms the painted flag is the “wrong way round”. The answer is that you should imagine the flag as real, flying in the wind, and the vehicle moving forward. Thus, from some angles, the stars would be on the right. so that’s how it’s painted.
They’re old folks and lost substance and perspective in their lives long ago. I guess when they put you in charge of flag etiquette and disposal at the local VFW and you’re in your late eighties, I suppose in you’re mind you’re the designated flag police and imbued with magical powers, laws and common courtesy be damned.
Yea that’s the way the flag on my Dad’s mailbox looked… it was reversed exactly like every American flag on every American soldiers’ uniform in Iraq right now.
So, is that even technically disrespectful and wrong, the way it was displayed?
Not to disrespect you, dk, but wouldn’t a veteran be familiar with reversed flags for exactly that reason? I find it slightly dubious that a veteran would be offended by it.
The reversed flag is a fairly new battlefield convention, and that’s why I am wondering if it is wrong? Perhaps there is a difference between civilian or common display of actual physical flags and military “sigil” display?
I’m sure this guy was being a stickler… lots of time on his hands and he seemed to take it all very seriously.
I’ll take your word for it. I only heard about it on the Dope anyway. Having never been in the military, or America I wouldn’t know.
Well, I know that when I was taught flag etiquette the convention for an actual physical flag is to always have the union (field of stars) displayed on the left. That is the correct and longstanding way to display the flag… how the military’s new convention in reversal applies to longstanding and codified flag flying etiquette, I have no idea.
Here’s the US flag code and proper etiquette. I guess number 6 would apply to my situation and our horrible violation…
My thoughts exactly. There’s no Pledge of Allegiance here in Australia (fortunately), and brainwashing kids into worshipping a flag is, IMHO, something I am not at all comfortable with. If you want to be proud of your country/flag, great. Don’t expect me to share your enthusiasm.