How should local crime rate affect choice of home?

In My Humble Opinion
21

Frylock, as you walk through neighborhoods, make sure you look for certain things.

Are there toys in the yard? If so, this is a positive sign. It means people aren’t afraid to let their kids play outdoors, and they aren’t worried about thieves stealing Big Wheels (yes, thieves will steal Big Wheels. Firsthand experience).

Are porches decorated? Hanging plants are a good sign. Again, thieves will steal anything. Chairs on the front porch indicate a certain friendliness and watchfulness of the neighbors. (I can’t remember if houses in Indianapolis tend to have porches. Its been a while since I’ve been up there.)

(I understand that it’s in the dead of winter, which may confound this examination. But Google Earth may show you summer time images. While you’re there, you can look for front yard gardens. That’s another positive sign.)

What do the holiday decorations look like? If folks have lights and Nativity scenes, even cheesy ones, then they probably like living where they do. If no one has anything up, then they are either too broke to afford them or they don’t see the point.

Are there burglar bars on all the windows? Or just on some houses?

What do the backyard dogs look like? If all the dogs are pit bulls and similar dogs wearing spiked collars, and you don’t see anyone actually walking their pets, then you may want to be wary. (I know not all pits are used as guard dogs, but a neighborhood full of them is a sign.)

In the neighborhood where I grew up, some houses would have signs warning trespassers. As in “Forget the Dog. Beware of Owner”. If only a couple of houses per block have signs like this, maybe not a big deal. But if the majority of the houses are marked, well, it’s a sign.

Go to the closest grocery store. Is there are railing preventing people from taking the carts out to the parking lot? If so, then there is probably a lot of theft in the area (either that, or the store owners have little regard for their clientele). Also, stores in high crime neighborhoods usually greet their customers with an unusual dress code posted at the door. No hats, no hoodies, no shades.

Are there a lot of boarded-up properties in the area? A lot of foreclosure houses? (Trulia will show this). Are the majority of people living in the neighborhood owners or renters (the majority on my street are renters and I don’t think this alone means anything negative. But our rents are not dirt cheap either.)

Are there trees? This may seem like a really dumb thing to look for, but a study showed that trees are correlated with safety. One explanation is that people’s perception of safety goes up when there are more trees, and this causes them to be outdoors more. The more people who are outside = the more people who are watching out for crime. Criminals don’t generally want a whole bunch of people eyeballing them.

22

Thank you that all seems like really good advice.

We are (or I am) going to do what you describe shortly after we actually get a loan approval letter. (At this point we aren’t even 100% sure how much we’ll be approved for…)

Early indications seem positive, though, based on what I have seen. Trees a-plenty, no burglar bars or “beware of dog” type signs visible, houses within two blocks aren’t run-down (past two blocks towards the east things start getting worse though).

I don’t know how to tell if the majority are renters.

I don’t think I saw toys in yards, but the yards are all very small, and the two neighbors we did talk to were both older so this may be a neighborhood without a lot of kids.

-KR

23

I’m sorry the link didn’t work for you, I got it from the police out here when I was looking at houses.
You could call the local police and they will tell you what streets to avoid.

One of my friends says you can judge a neighborhood by the cars.
If you see mostly nice cars that are cared for it’s probably a safer neighborhood.
If you see a lot of rusted out dented up clunkers you probably don’t want to live there.

I lived in Baltimore for years in a not so nice neighborhood.
Believe me it is not worth the added stress.

24

Yep it’s all kind of hanging on the crime question. I’ll look at car quality too.

Decision-making between me and my wife can be hard sometimes. I have a tendency to think too much of possible negative consequences. Meanwhile, she has a tendency to think too much of possible positive consequences. Somewhere in the middle is where we have to meet, but finding that middle isn’t always easy.

So just call up the non-emergency police number and ask somebody? Hadn’t thought of that…

-KR

25

I would never have thought of it either…and I’m a bit surprised that somebody suggested it.
But I wouldn’t call the police station; I would try to speak in person with a patrol cop.

Recommendations like this don’t seem to me like a service the police department can officially provide: “call us and ask about the shitty neighborhoods, which just incidently happen to be populated by [pick your favorite ethnic group]”.

But if you can find a cop in the area and ask him personally,-and off the record-, you might get a more honest answer. And even if he refuses to answer (for good reasons–he doesn’t want to jeapordize his job), you can probably get a good hint of what he’s thinking just from his body language and the expression on his face. He may smile and say “yeah, it’s okay.”
Or he may roll his eyes and say “well, I’m not sure I can say anything but…”

26

LOL, I was just getting ready to post… I never move into any place without heading down to whatever local law enforcement agency has jurisdiction and having a chin wag with the duty officers. I have found them to be unfailingly helpful in sharing the types of crimes in the neighborhood, frequency, if it’s confined to particular locations or residences and the like. They know better than anyone what’s really going on. Since criminal activity is mostly a matter of public record, you can learn a lot by talking with them.

27

I’ve lived in both high and low crime neighborhoods. In a high crime neighborhood, there is a small but very real chance every day that your house or car will be broken in to. Given enough days, it will happen eventually. I coped with this by not owning anything worth stealing and hiding what little valuables I had, but even then I was subject to the kind of low-grade anxiety that comes with knowing your house isn’t safe. And then there are little things, like being able to sleep with the windows cracked or being able to leave a grocery bag in the car, that you can’t do in high-crime areas. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s not really a comfortable situation.

The things that make a particular house subject to crime are not always immediately apparent. My last home in DC was in a cute gentrifying neighborhood full of adorable little $650,00 rowhouses. My particular house was not far from a beautiful and brand new park, full of murals and gardens and modernist playgrounds. Anyone taking a walk around the neighborhood-- leafy and hipster laden-- would immediately pooh-pooh the statistics.

But that park served as a conduit between a set of housing projects several blocks north and a major street several blocks south- people on the run could just run through the park knowing the police had to take the long way to get the other side. My neighborhood experienced things like a rash of morning muggings, people being punched out regularly for their iPhones, every car on one street being broken in to, a set of armed home invasions, and other bad situations.

Sometimes being the nice neighborhood on the side of the bad neighborhood can be worse than being in the bad neighborhood itself. It’s just hard to know without that inside knowledge.

IMHO, buying in a place you know little about is a spectacularly terrible idea. Even if it costs more, renting for a year and getting to know the place can avoid even larger costs down the line.

28

What do ethnic groups have to do with it?

I called to local police, said I was planning to move to that town.
I said I looked at houses on A Street, B Street and C Street, what is the crime like? They told me to avoid A - which I had already picked up a bad vibe on, that B was in a safe area but if they had to choose for themselves, C Street was the best.
Then they sent me the link to crime reports and told me to call back if I had any more questions.
Very nice, very friendly and had nothing to do with race nor ethnic groups.
I also talked to the house inspector I hired, as he and his assistant know the area.
I talked to everybody, the waitress in the diner, the clerks in the stores, the neighbors, the teenaged boys walking up the street.

29

It’s extremely important to us, and was one of the main considerations in our choice of areas and neighborhoods.

We examined several neighborhoods and settled on a subdivision that was rated very safe and was also paying the local department for enhanced patrols. (This was new to us, but apparently some departments allow neighborhoods or businesses to “buy” extra patrols in order to have a more visible police presence. I think this is also done by the Houston PD, and I’ve read Google pays for this in SF as well) In our case, the contract specified a constant patrol in our subdivision. According to the HOA, a police car roamed through our little neighborhood 24/7, with departures only allowed for meals or nearby emergencies.

I also talked to two policemen (one of the officers in the neighborhood, and one at my gym). Both voted it as among the best, and near the top of their list for neighborhoods. Asked a few teachers about the school district* and got a similar positive vote.

FWIW: I also checked with the road/highway department and got a look at their proposed plans for additional Loops/Byways. In TX, lots of cities seem to have concentric rings of Loop highways added as they grow. In our case the hiway dept showed their next planned loop a considerable distance away (and no threat to us). Not having Google Earth back then, I rented a plane and actually flew over the neighborhood for a bit to examine what was near, and what might be built later.

*Texas is unique in that every neighborhood seems to have its own school district and funding sources. I think there are something like 1300 school districts in the state. This means the quality can vary significantly over a short distance.

30

Did a “walkthrough” using Google street view (which is, though, three year old images) and found kids toys, gardens, lots of trees, lots of patio furniture, all on the same block. That’s at least a little positive for what it may be worth.

Cars are all inexpensive (most expensive was a PT cruiser) but all in good shape. Basically, like my two cars…

But like I said, these were three year old images so it will be important for me to do an in-person walkthrough (planning to do it either tomorrow evening or Monday afternoon), with a survey of the neighbors if possible. Plan also to talk to local police.

Thanks for your help in this. I am worried but trying to counteract my usual over-pessimism with actual information.

31

It’s hard to explain how perfect the house is in every other way. No fixing needed. Huge, beautiful spaces inside. Up to date appliances. So. Many. Rooms. Perfect location in terms of access to the things my wife would like easy access for. (Myself, I can live anywhere as my job is going to be work-from-home.)

There’s literally no other home on the market at our price point that comes close.

32

One weird door that won’t close, though. Not due to a structural problem, rather, due to poorly made (seemingly hand-made) door and incorrect installation. But I don’t even care. We can fix that ourselves if the seller really doesn’t want to deal with it.

33

Ah sorry for the multi post but I just got an email from the listing realtor saying (of course) I shouldn’t worry about the crime rate because the block is being lumped in with worse neighborhoods—but then she’s trying to sell the thing isn’t she. But she also gave me contact information for the local neighborhood association, and for someone who lives in the area, who she said could talk to me about such concerns.

A personal walkthrough and talk with the local police will still be in order but this could be useful information.

34

Neighborhood association-related people already got back with me. They say many families with children have been moving into the area in the last five years, and things in the area I’m looking at are looking up as compared to a few years ago.

But what are their incentives here? Clearly they (the neighborhood association) wouldn’t say bad things about the neighborhood.

35

Got this email:

Still need to do the personal walkthrough and talk to police but are any Dopers feeling more positive about the possibility than they were before?

36

Ask for details…lots of details…
What does “active” mean? Could be good, or bad.
But either way, it seems like a good source of specific information.

Bad:
Constant lawsuits against people who paint their house a color that is not on the approved list. Ccomplaints against people who don’t trim their lawns.
Petition to city police asking for more police patrols etc

Good:
Petition to the city engineer asking for the sidewalks to be re-paved.
Neighborhood barbecue on the 4th of July

37

On inquiry, I’m told that the neighborhood association isn’t mandatory, and doesn’t enforce rules like an HOA. It’s just people in the neighborhood doing things together, socializing, doing neighborhood cleanups, things like that.

(Also holy crap these guys are quick on the email draw.)

38

Also btw I guess I could have told you they’re not going around doing things to people with weird paint jobs based on the paint job at the house I’ve been talking about. Another minus, but a comparatively very minor one. :wink:

39

I would not be too assured by the fact that just that block is fine. Criminals often hit their own neighborhoods but one block isn’t exactly a long trip.

Are planning on never moving again? Because when you go to resell these same concerns will be shared by others. It will make it hard to sell and hard to get a return on your investment.

For me crime would be one of the main concerns. My entire county is relatively quiet. I like the fact that when I go to the news page for my county its filled with traffic accidents and 4H fairs. The page for the county I work in is full of murder and mayhem.

40

I wrote a long post to this effect last night when I lost access. An NA is for all residents of an area. Renters and students are welcome. We meet to discuss proposed zoning requests, problems with tree roots making sidewalks buckle, and the city’s scoop the poop campaign. There are no fines or rules about paint color. Our email list is for keeping an eye out for suspicious strangers and lost pets. We also put on a man 4th of July children’s parade.