People from the "bad" side of town: Are you sensitive?

I grew up on Atlanta’s southwest side (in The West End, for all those familiar with the town). Back in the day–before the spread of post-Olympics gentrification–anything south of downtown was considered the “hood”, at least from the lofty vantage point of “uptown”.

I was bussed uptown, like many black kids in Atlanta at that time (don’t know about now). We were all too familiar with not only the obvious differences between our own neighborhoods and the areas surrounding our schools, but also the perception of our neighborhoods by our classmates. Starting from an early age, we all knew we came from the “wrong side of the tracks”. The kids I went to school with–the kids who lived near school–didn’t know anything about my neighborhood, whereas I knew tons of stuff about theirs. And yet they had a perception about my neighborhood being bad, or at least objectively worse than theirs.

But I never felt like my neighborhood was all that bad. There were professionals who lived on my block along with regular, working-class folks. Also a lot of dreadlocked, kente-clothing wearing Afrocentric folk. Most of the homes were well-kept–some of the houses were old, expensive Victorians set behind iron gates and tall hedges, with pools in the back. As a kid, I never felt like I couldn’t ride my bike around or play with the other kids. We had festivals and parades and cultural centers (The Shrine of the Black Madonna, St. Anthony’s, The Wren’s Nest where Joel Chandler Harris lived.) Across the street from my house was the grocery store owned by the Koreans, the laundry mat/furniture store where I would pick up Mommy’s clothes and play video games, and the auto mechanic who always gave us a discount. Down the street, just a quarter of a mile away, was the West End Marta station and the West End mall. Krispy Kremes just around the corner. A very urban, bustling part of town–not bleak “inner city”.

Not to say my “hood” didn’t have its bad sides. Gun shots would rattle off at night sometimes, and our house got broken more times than I’d like to admit. It wasn’t unusual to find homeless/crazy people strolling down the street, and there were a few shady neighbors sprinkled here and there. But the bad things weren’t enough to scare my family away for almost twenty years. My parents could have moved us any time they wanted to (my father worked in east Cobb County…talk about a lousy commute) but they didn’t. (They finally did move, but it was because my mother wanted her “dream” home…which she didn’t dream about until after all her children had moved out of the house.)

I don’t think having grown up where I did makes me more special or noble than anyone else. Like I said, I don’t think the area was that bad. However, I do think it’s made me especially sensitive, in general, to remarks about “bad” neighborhoods. The other day, a coworker of mine said he was going to visit Atlanta. He asked me to steer him away from the “bad” parts of town when he asked for directions to the Varsity :rolleyes:. Um…I got a little snippy and told him that if he happened to find himself in a “bad” part of town, he’d bump into people like me. The nice, friendly people who make up the city.

Another coworker who has just moved down here always complains about how bad her neighborhood is. She hasn’t been a victim of crime or had anything bad happen to her (as far as I know), and yet she always feels unsafe. In addition to having grown up in SWATS, I did a five-year stint in Newark, NJ. So I’m having a hard time not taking her by the shoulders and telling her to toughen up.

I don’t know if it’s a racial thing or city-slicker thing or a class thing, but it just works my nerves whenever I hear people talk badly about neighborhoods…especially those places they haven’t been before. There are truly bad neighborhoods–don’t get me wrong. But I think people way too often assume a place is bad without really knowing anything about it. I don’t like this.

Is anyone else like me?

I see you’re in Miami. I’m not sure what part you and your co-workers live in, but I grew up in Kendall (or more appropriately, pretty much nestled right between Kendall/Westchester/South Miami, and it was very typical suburban living. My parents still live in the same house, and we’ve only been burglarized once ever.

However, when I went away to college and met people from all over South Florida (including a large percentage of people from North Miami Beach/Aventura and all over Broward and Palm Beach Counties), all of them automatically assumed I was from the 'hood; a demilitarized zone; at the very least, a vast cultural wasteland (and they weren’t wrong about the latter, at least). Basically, Kendall was no-man’s land, and “decent people” moved away many years back if they could. Wow, what did that make my family and me?

I can’t say I’m from a “bad” part of town. I grew up in towns too small to have a bad side. But, since moving up and out to big cities, I’ve lived in neighborhoods that other people think are “bad”. And that attitude you’re talking about really pisses me off. I think a lot of it is racial - I’m white, and I’ve known people who equate ethnic diversity with crime (unconsiously, at least I hope so). But I know black folks who think my neighborhood is rough just because there’s a bit of graffiti and a bunch of crazy (but harmless) street people around. (For the record, I’m where the Fourth Ward meets the Highlands meets Midtown - I hear it was rough 15 years ago, but it’s getting downright bougie now.)

I taught for two years in the hood (Bankhead), and while it was truly the hardest thing I’ve ever done, I never once felt unsafe, even when I visited kids in the projects. I’m even considering buying a house over there. People look out for one another, and stick up for one another, more in crummy parts of town that in the burbs, in my experience.

And monstro, one of my friends grew up in SWATS, and though she likes to claim that she’s from the hood, she grew up on a cul-de-sac :wink: . She feels largely the way you do.

Im my experience in the deep South (Alabama) it was pretty explicitly racial. I’d tell people where I lived (in college) and they’d be like “isn’t that apartment complex . . . bad?”, with a little pregnant pause that made it clear what they were really asking. It pissed me off beyond belief.

My own upbringing was pretty suburban, but I teach in an urban school now (with incredible economic diversity) and one thing I have learned is that “bad” and “good” really exisit on a street-by-street basis, not a neighborhood-by-neighborhood basis. I drop kids off all the time from one function or another, and there have been a couple apartment complexes that made me nervous, but most are fine. My kids, on the other hand, love playing up their “ghetto” roots to kids from suburban schools. The nice thing about such a diverse school is that many of our kids leave high school having spent good chunks of time in crappy apratments, middle-class three bedroom homes, and Very Nice Houses, no matter which one they actually live in.

On the other side of hte coin, I also have students that are so embarressed to live in crappy apartments in seedy neighborhoods that they won’t ever let anyone over.

MsMitey, nice to see another Atlantan in these parts. Although I now live in Miami, I will always call Atlanta my home.

When people talk about the “ghetto” around me, and I chime in to let them know I come from the “ghetto” (just so they watch what they say), they refuse to believe I’m telling the truth. I guess I speak too proper or something.

I work at FIU and live in West Kendall, so I know the area you’re talking about. Hmmm…I didn’t know it had a bad reputation. But of course, west of South Dixie every neighborhood looks and feels exactly the same to me. All very suburbany. That’s why I think I miss Atlanta so much. When you live in Atlanta proper, it’s hard not to feel like a city dweller.

I forgot one other thing I’ve noticed. I think there’s a high correlation between people who are overly concerned about the safety of a certain part of town, and people who put too much stock in the local news. If that’s your only data source for what’s going on in the city, you’re probably more likely to think you’re going to get caught in a drive-by on the interstate. (Yes, I’ve known somebody who wouldn’t even take the freeway through the city for this reason. In Minneapolis, fer chrissakes.)

This was certainly the case when I lived in small towns. We got the big city news, and from what we saw, Minneapolis was a modern-day Sodom & Gomorrah. When we ended up moving down there, my Mom made us swear that we wouldn’t join a gang!

It can be fun living in Oakland. When I moved here, the most common comment was “aren’t you afraid of getting shot?” Whenever “where we live” comes up at parties in San Francisco, all the hipsters seem a little awed. My friends have experienced stuff like scared people who got off at the wrong BART stop beg them to protect them (in broad daylight in a populated area) while waiting for the next train.

Little do they know I live in a fabulous old-fashioned neighborhood with a movie palace, amazing food from around the world, a gigantic park with lots of wonderful things. I love it here.

monstro. Yeah, I’m sensitive. In fact, if anything I’m overly sensitive – to people who like to stay cocooned in whitebread, racially homogenous, culturally sheltered, politically secluded, exclusionary, urban gated, gentrified, middle-to-upper-middle-class accomodations, services, conveniences and norms wherever they live, and with whoever they work with, and whenever they travel. People who think getting some Mexican food means eating Taco Bell. These are often some of the most fearful, unadventurous, and whiny people on the planet, with some of the most narrow and naive worldviews and condescending attitudes. They have no real acceptance that the rest of the world and large tracts of this country do not live as they do.

Boo-hoo-hoo! This remote for the TV is broken!

Wah-wah-wah! This modem is dial-up!

Whimper. Weep! (Choke!) Do we have to take public transportation to downtown Atlanta?

Go-oo-oolly. “The Atlant-ER Universit-EE Center.” I didn’t know black people had colleges. Is this new?


Prickly anger is one way to go. Another is… humor. Preferably at their expense. Embrace it. Learn to amuse yourself by exploiting their enormous ignorance and needlessly provoking their largely unjustified fears.

“Will you give us directions, Askia?”

“Might be a little long, but I’ll get you there!” <---- (Not meant to be reassuring.)

See, I’d give them directions from 75/85 South to I-20 that gave them a nice long, scenic route to the Varsity – like, the West End. :smiley: I’d have them driving from the heart of the hood on Ralph David Abernathy (formerly Cascade Road) to Northside Drive to Whitehall until they got back I-20 and Memorial Drive on the edge of downtown by the “new” Greyhound Bus station and Magic City; I’d let them cut up Forsyth in the heart of downtown, right where they’d have to drive past Underground Atlanta and see all the MARTA-dependent black people milling around. Then when they should continue North, I’d have them turn East down Peachtree to Auburn Avenue and check out historical black Atlanta and the King Memorial. Then maybe I’ll be nice and let them take Boulevard over past the North Avenue hood, then back on to Peachtree Road and the Fox Theatre again. Once they’re back on the nice, safe business district they’ll be just fine.

I figure as long as I kept them out of Mechanicsville, I’ve kept them out of the worst of the hood.

Don’t make me feel bad. I told you, I’m sensitive.

I grew up on the “right” side of town but have done my best to make up for it apparently. Where I live now has a nickname comparing it to a slum, and the part I live in has, gasp-shudder, public housing. :rolleyes: I hear comments from co-workers every now and then* and have to point out that not only have I not been a victim of crime, ever, here, we’ve also had many a package delivered to our front door and left there for hours and not a single one swiped. Back in the “right” side of the town I grew up, I’d still expect parcels to go missing.

It’s a mixed socioeconomic and ethnic area, which I really like, even though we’ve moved on up to yuppie income status from starving student status during the five years we’ve lived here. Hell if I’d know what to do living somewhere with a "safe"ly homogenous population. This is my home neighbourhood and I do get a bit forthright in defence of it.

*Including the mindblowing one stating that it wasn’t a race issue, it was a socioeconomic issue- fear of crime because of all those poor people I guess- which was supposed to make it better! Nu-uh!

I was raised in Richmond, CA. Went through my junior schooling there. Graduated in '58, and there was racial friction even then. North Richmond was a place to stay away from, that was the dividing line. The school I attended was racially about even from the school board’s point of view. But in reality we (caucasion) had to group together to protect ourselves when walking home (or biking). Yes, we had to form a gang for defense. It worked for the most part.
Most of us got along except for a few.
Sorry, I’m rambling.

I have a very weird situation. I live on a generally pretty nice block, we’ve gotten broken into a few times and our car stolen twice or so but nothing too bad. Two blocks west, literally where i wait for the bus every mornig, are the “slums” of the area. Ones a known house, and another just got raided by the FBI for being an arms dealing place. Another three block south, people get shot there all the time. dealers, gangs, ers, whatever they all hang out there. I walk through there every day. So I guess i’m kinda in the middle.

However, most of the rich kids at my school try to act ghetto and like to pretend they’re poor. Its kinda annoying to see them do it when so many of my friends are living check to check and i often have to share my lunch with them and stuff like that.

But ANYWAY, one of these guys is kinda a friend of mine, and comes over occasionally. He always gets all wide eyed and afraid and seems pretty scared on the walk to my house. I don’t really mind it, because I know he just doesn’t know.

One of the most memorable field trips I took in school was when my fourth grade teacher, Ms. Twiggs, took the class to the “black” side of town. No joke. The class boarded a school bus, jumped on I-20 W, and got off on the Ashby St. exit (it will always be Ashby Street to me, sorry).

I was all, “OMG!! This is where I live!”. I was probably bouncing up and down in my seat like a fool. It seemed kind of surreal that my classmates, especially the white kids, were actually going to be in the vicinity of my house. (But wouldn’t you know it? We didn’t go to my house like I wanted us to.)

We drove by Dean Rusk Middle School and visited M. Agnes Jones Elementary School, where we ate with another fourth grade class. (I wonder if their teacher told them they were eating lunch with a bunch of rich white kids…bet they were disappointed!) Then we got back on the bus and drove up Fair St., going through the AUC, winding around the projects and all. Ms. Twiggs was our tour guide through the whole drive, explaining all the landmarks and places we passed. We toured through Sweet Auburn, ending at the MLK center. It was a learning experience for all.

I wonder what made Ms. Twiggs decide to take us on that trip, because now that I look back on it, it was kind of strange*.

*she was always taking us places. During the last week of school, she led us on a mile-long hike up the street from school and took us to McDonald’s, where she bought all of us ice cream sundaes. She got our parent’s permission and everything. What a nice lady.

I’ll tell you guys a story, since maybe you guys can make sense of it.

I’m hanging out on Ashby and San Pablo in Berkeley, waiting for my bus. It’s not a bad neighborhood, but it’s definitely a little sketchy. It’s a beer-cans-in-paper-bags kind of place, but not a “let’s all lock the car doors now” kind of place.

I’m waiting for my bus home from work. And I look just like a mid-twenties white lady going home from work. At the bus stop are the usual assortment of homeless people and the sketchier variety of locals. Sitting down is a well dressed black kid- maybe 17 years old. He’s got a collared shirt, really nice tennis shoes and a big rolling suitcase. He looks at me. I smile. He comes up and says in hushed but earnest tones:

“Excuse me ma’am. Where is the ghetto.”
“Uhhhh what?”
“You know, the ghetto in Berkeley”
“Uhhh. I’m not really sure. You could try walking towards Oakland a bit. But it’s not going to be much different than this.”
“Oh.”

A few minutes pass. He comes up to me again.

“What about Richmond?”
“MMmm?”
“You know. Richmond. The ghetto. How do you get there?”
“I think you’d have to take BART. I don’t really know. I think maybe the 72M goes all the way there”
“How much would it cost?”
“If you take BART, maybe five bucks all together.”
“Oh man. I just spent my last few bucks getting here”
“Where are you coming from?” I asked, assuming the bag meant he was coming from the airport or something
“Oakland”
“Oh”

Than my bus came. Still can’t figure it out? Kid from the suburbs acting like a tourist? College student working on a paper? Selling something? Just looking for that special ghetto feeling?

I’m not sensitive about it, but I’m sort of obsessed with it.

My family moved from the bad side of town to a Pleasantville-esque suburb when I was seven or so. Actually, it wasn’t the bad side exactly, it’s more the low rent, white trash, working class, Polish porch, that’ll be a perfectly good car once I get it off those blocks side of town. No danger of gun shots, but possible danger from cheerful drunks deciding to shoot off fireworks, or drag race, or set something on fire. Being torn from the neighborhood of my birth and plunked down in serious Stepford Suburbia made me obsessed with class. I was sensitive about it as a kid, but as I got older I got into the whole reserve snob kind of thing.

It’s weird, I have a lot of issues about it still. Sometimes I feel like I’m not really able to completely blend with either environment. But a benefit, I think, is that I’m able to be pretty comfortable no matter where I am. Yet, it feels like I’m missing something because I’m not entirely comfortable.

THE BUS DRIVERS NEVER DO. Why is that? I remember one time I was helping give directions to a new driver who did not know our route and giving him directions to get back to the expressway. I gave great directions. I drew a map, yo. All I asked in return was to be dropped off right in front of my house, which was on the way, instead of me walking three blocks in the rain, past Dwight and his crew. Driver saw all the dealers on that corner and refused to drive by them on the bus. I remember thinking: but you’re okay with me walking past them on foot? Polly Warner was all concerned, “Those guys might shoot you.” I told her as I hopped cheerfully off the bus: “Aw, them fools probably rob me and beat me up some, but they’re not gonna shoot me.” Sure as shit, Dwight 'n 'em spotted me getting off the bus and chased me home. Polly was screaming at them from the window.

I will say, even as an adult, I have no problems living on the “wrong side of town” – or more accurately, a working class neighborhood near the hood on that side of town. Frankly, rents there are CHEAP, I like shopping in thrift stores, everybody minds their business. I have never paid more than $400 a month for an apartment or $100 for solid, well crafted furniture in my life. People who live paycheck to paycheck in $800 apartments bewilder me. But then, I’m a single male with no kids, so I have fewer safety considerations.

even sven. I got no idea what that was about.

I think you’ve got a valid point and it’s something I’ve thought of before. For a lot of us, if you live in a neighborhood where hearing gunshots at night isn’t unusual then you live in a bad area, because we’re just not used to that kind of thing. I didn’t have any experience with night time gunshots until I moved to Arkansas a few years ago and it took a bit of getting used to. I was never mugged or assaulted but things left in the back yard would be missing by morning, panhandlers would knock on my door to beg for change, and combined with the gunshots at night it made it difficult for me to feel all that secure. I certainly didn’t want to leave my wife there alone and I was always worried about whether my stuff would be there when I got back home from work.

On the flip side, I don’t think I’ve ever felt threatened by just occupying a certain space and time within a “bad” neighborhood and the only time I was ever assaulted was in a “nice” part of the city. I suppose your definition of what is bad might vary from others. I have since moved and I still hear gunshots at night on occasion but they cause me no worries. I live in a rural area and figure they’re just shooting a coyote, some other pest, or maybe they’re just poachers.

Marc

To most people I think this qualifies as a bad neighborhood. I mean certainly you could live there and not have a horrible experience, but I think most people would rather not have to worry about those things at all.

I live in an area where we have the beginning of “the ghetto” on one side and the beginning of a quieter, safer neighborhood on the other side. We get gang signs painted onto our garage door regularly, as do the neighbors on the same side of the street. The neighbors across the street have no such problems.

The larger area where I live is known for being not a nice place to be. I have a few friends who are afraid to drive me home and get extremely silly and freak out when I offer to walk home. My area is such that, while there are unquestionably unsafe places nearby, not every part is unsafe. If I want to walk four miles home from school, chances are miniscule that I’ll be raped, shot, mugged, or even harrassed at all. If I keep walking past my house and go one block, chances are about 90% that I’ll be harrassed, followed, or asked for a handout. I haven’t been mugged, shot, or raped yet, but it could happen.

It doesn’t bother me when people talk about bad neighborhoods. I think it’s kind of funny when kids from the suburbs say silly things like, “you live in the city? have you ever been shot?” I understand feeling a bit unsafe. That’s why I carry pepper spray in my purse, don’t carry my ipod or cash if I have to walk to work, and take my very large dog with me if I walk anywhere after dark.

What DOES bother me is judging people just because they happen to live in a bad neighborhood. My dad once drove me to work and told me to be careful walking becuase there were “unsavory” people around. He then pointed out some of the “unsavory” people- it took me about a second to realize that “unsavory” was code for “black.” I can grok staying away from people who harrass me or follow me. but I’m not going to be scared of someone just because they’re black. That’s stupid. I’m also not going to avoid someone because they take the bus or happen to be walking around in a “bad” neighborhood. When I’m walking to work, I’M walking around in a bad neighborhood, and I’m just a middle-class teenager going to work- why should I assume they’re any different?

I spent six years on the South Side of Chicago. The irony of this is that I lived in Hyde Park, an integrated, racially and economically diverse university neighborhood. Some other parts of the South Side are pretty bad as far as crime and poverty, and I wouldn’t walk around there alone at night or anything. Hyde Park is pretty safe, though. I do have a few friends who have been mugged, but that’s city life. If you’re a little cautious, it’s a beautiful and vibrant place to live.

However, even people from the North Side have trouble believing I didn’t wear full body armor to class and step over dead hookers on the streets. North Siders never seem to go to the South Side, and even the ones who know a little about Hyde Park can’t believe I’d choose to live there. “There’s nothing to do there!” Um, there are restaurants, theaters, bars, and just about everything you have on the North Side. The one absent element in Hyde Park might be a “clubbing” scene, and you’ll catch me doing just about anything but “clubbing” on a Saturday night. (Plus, all my friends were in Hyde Park! Can’t anyone understand that, at least? Why would I purposefully move away from all my friends, when I can walk to their apartments within 15 minutes?)

I am pretty touchy about the “bad side of town” assumptions, I suppose. And a lot of it is racially motivated in Chicago. The clubs and bars on the South Side are largely seen as “places only black people go.” It may be objectively true, but it’s offensive to hear people completely discount them. Most guidebooks to Chicago don’t even have a section on the South Side, or if they do, it’s Hyde Park only. How can they get away with being so blatantly racist?

As someone who’s guilty of this behavior, I’m finding this thread pretty interesting. When I was little, my family would go to the city (Buffalo or Rochester) every once in awhile to get stuff like hair care products, and go to the fish market. They usually set it up so that someone would watch all the kids, and the others would pick up enough stuff for everyone. When I think about it now, it almost sounds like they were going into a forbidden territory or something:). When they took us with them, as soon as we got to a certain area, the adults would tell us all the rules. Lock the doors, roll up the windows, don’t talk to, or make eye contact with anyone. Everyone was on high alert until we left that part of the city. Add the local news reports to that experience, and I know exactly why I’m wary of the “ghetto”. It’s definitely not a racial or class thing for me. My grandparents used to live in a big city, but left when it “started getting bad” (their words). We have a family member who moved to a questionable part of Buffalo recently, and all of the relatives think it’s a terrible idea. So, anyway, this is another one of my prejudices that I should spend some time thinking about.

I can’t take part in the poll itself, since I’ve never lived in a “bad” neighborhood, but I agree with pool. Those things are exactly what I’d think of if I were to imagine a bad area. I know that lots of the people who live in the inner city are perfectly nice, and that there are bad eggs everywhere, but I’ll probably never be able to relax there the way I can in my (rural) area.

Sorry for the hijack.