How Should We Combat Modern Racism?

Great Debates
161

@Paleface

The point of my post was that racists need no excuse to hate black people so modifying behavior to appease them is meaningless. It’s not a solution to the OP.

As for not taking you at your word my bad BUT you’ve admitted to thinking nigger about behavior that could best be described as douchebaggy (Kanye). This was the first example you thought of. That’s a pretty low threshold.

You also ascribed that feeling to white people across America meaning you believe that most white people feel the way you do. Is that what Taylor felt? How would you know? Are you judging white people’s behaviors just as harshly? What behaviors are below the “N word” threshold you’ve set for white people across America?

When someone admits to referring to some black people as “N words” for certain situations but not others, I get wary. You’re not Chris Rock.

162

That’s a large part of it, but the tools needed to compete costs lots of money and time. Both of which are finite resources that advantaged people are not likely to exhaust in the interest of fairness.

There is, and will always be, a distinction. Ignoring race doesn’t prevent people from realizing I have brown skin, and making assumptions based on that fact. Did you read the article I linked to earlier? The reality is that we are hard-wired to make these distinctions; distinctions that strengthen over time as a result of societal attitudes. We can change those attitudes, but we cannot make people blind to the obvious physical and cultural differences we have. There will always be “us” and “them”; the goal should be to make fewer value judgments and assumptions on those bases.

It has to do with race, because the two concepts are linked in many people’s minds. It’s the reason why urban decay has gotten as bad as it has. Do you really think our drug policy would be the same if White people were arrested in the same numbers, and sentenced in the same way, that Black people are? There is plenty of evidence that Whites do more drugs than Black people, yet the arrest disparity is staggering. Ignoring the problem is largely possible because those who suffer do not look like those with power. If race is integral to the way we deal with an issue, why should we pretend it’s irrelevant?

While I agree with your point, the larger problem is that people feel they deserve to be given anything just because they meet certain criteria. This is a larger problem that is not race-specific, but has nonetheless affects race relations. The level of entitlement people feel is really amazing.

Well, maybe you realize that addressing alternate realities is fruitless and arbitrary. For example, maybe they would have gotten in if their parent had decided to go there, or if they were born 2 years earlier, or if the were better at sports. Or if they didn’t sweat so much during their interview, or if they asked a different teacher for a recommendation, or if they had decided to appeal the decision. Conversely, maybe they still wouldn’t have gotten in if more elite Asian students applied, or if the school had to cut their enrollment numbers because their endowment tanked, or if the school already accepted too many people from their school. Honing in on one of an infinite number of possibilities indicates a general affinity for that line of reasoning. A general proclivity for thinking that one thing is more problematic for you than another without any evidence. Evidence that is almost always lacking since no college tells a White kid they didn’t accept him solely because we wanted to accept this one other Black kid instead.

It’s also very telling that you rarely see Asians complain about being denied spots at colleges despite being disadvantaged more than any other group. They tend to internalize such things, in line with a general sense of humility, and a recognition that they are not entitled to anything from anyone. Many White Americans blame others, particularly when there is an easy whipping boy nearby. Even more galling, they blame others without even having direct knowledge of the decision making process, or any specific grievance. It’s always just the assumption that since Black or Hispanic people got in, it must be due to affirmative action, and that they are better, and more deserving because they might have scored better on some tests.

I think the societal attitude needs to shift to a realization that one’s lot is life is determined far more by outside circumstances and sheer luck than it is by one’s actions, decisions, innate talent, or worth. That’s not to say we shouldn’t reward hard work and positive actions, just that they are among a multitude of variables that should be evaluated when we judge admissions or other things.

Malcom Gladwell’s latest book, Outliers, illustrates the extent to which our lives are subject to subtle outside forces. One example he mentions is that professional hockey players are disproportionately born early in the year due to youth hockey league cutoff dates. Another is that a list of the 75 richest people in the history of the world includes 14 people born in the US within 9 years of each other. Nearly 20% of the richest people ever (a list that includes people like Cleopatra) were born in one place within a 9 year span. Yes, they were all brilliant people, but they would likely have never achieved similar success in a different era or country. Those men were more a product of unique circumstances rather than unique ability.

Another cluster occurred around 1950, ~25 year prior to when the computing era was beginning. We see several current titans of industry having been born near that date (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Paul Allen, Eric Schmidt, Steve Ballmer, Bill Joy, etc.). Again, nobody questions Gates’ brilliance, just that alternate reality Bill Gates born 8 years earlier would probably not be the richest man in the world. My point is that when people start appreciating that their position and opportunities in life are based more on things beyond their control, then maybe we can collectively act to improve individuals circumstances in order to maximize human potential.

163

If those white folk are racist, most likely you are correct. However, my first thought was, “What a dick.” What do suppose they would have said if Eminem had done the deed?

164

If Eminem had jumped up on the stage and grabbed the award from Beyonce’s hands and went on a tirade about how Taylor Swift’s video was more deserving, hell, the reverends Sharpton and Jackson, with the help of a willing media, would have been shouting “racist” at the top of their lungs.

Think not?

165

Now, you are putting words in my mouth. I did not say MOST white people felt that way, but maybe they did. Who knows? But I bet a significant number did, and I’ll tell you why.

There has been an effort to eradicate the “N” word from usage, and that’s honorable. But, it works both ways.

Whites are well aware of the effort to eradicate the “N” word, then when a black behaves in an offensive manner, the “N” word just automatically comes to mind. It’s kind of like telling someone to not think of the color red. What happens? The person can’t help but to think of red. That’s just the way it is.

You damn right I do.

Yes, sometimes I say “nigger”, and sometimes I say “white trash”.

I may not be Chris Rock, but, am I not allowed to feel the same way he does?

166

White people across America usually means most white people. You implied with your Kanye posts that they felt the way you do when you used it as an example to define “N word” behavior. My point is that that is a pretty low threshold meaning that it doesn’t take much for you to think negatively about a black person.

After posting this you go on to assert that this same behavior(judging the group by the individual) would make Honesty a racist. That’s hypocrisy. And you still haven’t answered the “N word” threshold question.

167

I think they probably would have. But that is not the issueu you and I have been discussing. It would be the issue if they shouted “Cracker racist” or “white trash racist”.

Stating that you believe a situation is racially motivated is an opinion. Stating that and using a racial slur in that statement moves it waaaaay out of the opinion area and into just pure ass bad manners.

Gee whiz, if using the word means that much to you and if you truly feel you cannot get the message across without using it, then do it. Jump up and down and shout it out loud if it makes you feel better. Just have the intestinal fortitude to use it to the persons face and not behind their back.

168

Did you really think you could get away with this?

Now, here’s what I said in response to MizTina’s question regarding “N” word behavior.

Did I say “most”? No, I said “some”. It is a disingenuous tactic to twist one’s words so you can create a strawman to knock down.

169

I didn’t say it was racially motivated, but Kanye’s actions did make himself vulnerable to the charge. Of course, it is only whites that are supposed to be racially sensitive. Right?

And you, too, are creating a strawman. The only thing I did was point out that Kanye’s stunt resurected the “N” word.

Another strawman.

170

No, it’s not hypocrisy, it’s just the way it is. I have not endorsed judging all black people on Kanye’s behavior, all I have done is illustrate how one person’s behavior has the potential to reflect negatively on the group.

And as for the “N” word threshold question", it’s not relevant and is just a stupid hoop you want me to jump through.

171

Missed the word some. Sorry. But you did admit thinking Kanye was a nigger when most people would have used douchebag or asshole.
And you’re making my other point(see below) by saying that negative behavior by an individual affects some people’s(including you) perception of the whole group. And you’re telling black people to play nice and you won’t be judged. We already play nice. Most of us. So why are you judging Blacks by the actions of a few people?

172

cont’d(can’t do long posts)

This is disingenuous. Saying that White people’s usage of the word nigger is because black people use it so much. And why automatically?

173

So it’s alright for me to judge all white men as child molesters since you guys are (seemingly) the only group that likes to fondle toddlers? Right?

174

No, you left out the second part of the post.

I said that telling someone not to use the “N” word, was similar to telling someone to not think of the color red. What happens? The person cannot help but to think of the color red.

And I did not mean to imply that whites used the word because blacks use it.

175

What!!! You want to lay that on white men too?? Isn’t it enough that white men is the only group that it is acceptable to label as racist?

176

But I can understand why. Afterall, there is a payoff.

Once all whites are labeled as racist, a whole new horizon of opportunity opens up. For example, say you are a black stripper employed to perform for a fraternity of rich white kids. Hell, all you have to do is claim that you were raped, and you will have the full support of, not only your annointed leaders behind you, but the media behind you as well.

Man, you can’t ask for a better set-up than that.

And they say that there’s no opportunity in America anymore.

177

Don’t want to be raped? Don’t dress suggestively.

Blame the victim; what a solution!

178

That’s pretty much what I’ve gotten out of this thread. Or, you know, “If only they didn’t act so danged uppity!” There’s lots of douchey white celebrities who act as obnoxious as Kanye and yet we don’t heap upon them the responsibility of being race representatives. When Nicole Ritchie and Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan go about town with their underwear (or lack thereof) showing, does anyone shake their head and think if only white blonde girls acted more intelligently, there would be no widespread discrimination against them? Or if only Tom Cruise stopped talking about psychiatry, there’d be no more bigotry? A lot of you guys are going into this assuming that because there’s racism and bigotry that these people have done something special to earn it–that it’s gangsta rap or the fact that they all act like thugs.

It’s a natural sort of victim blaming, I think, that explains all kind of abuse. “You’re bad because you’re in this low position, because you’re bad I should hurt you,” and that just continues into a cycle. And I know that everyone here who’s posted is going to scream, “I’M not a racist, I just wish they wouldn’t play rap music at 3 in the morning and act so stupid.” But it’s just that you can’t oppress people for generations and then heap more condemnation on them for not achieving the same level as people who haven’t had that disadvantage. It’s like you’re setting them up for failure.

And finally, I don’t think that it has anything to do with how black people dress act or talk. I read a lot of biographies of black performers from the early sixties, especially a lot of Motown performers, who all talk about being relatively famous/successful up north, and then going south and being called “nigger” by people who didn’t give a damn who they were. It didn’t matter if they were rich or poor, smart or dumb, successful or nobodies–the type of person who would use that word to describe them simply didn’t care, and would reduce them to that word.

179

Wait, that’s not a good analogy. Regardless of how someone dresses, rape is a crime. It’s an action. An action someone chooses to do. Responding to how someone dresses is simply a response to a stimulus. Surely if three people show up for an interview, all with very similar backgrounds and levels of experience, and one is dressed in a suit, the other like a gang-banger and the third like Uncle Fester, i’m going to have different impressions of each of them. And each is based on decisions made by the individuals as to how they dressed.

180

(Bolding mine) You have clearly thrown out Paleface’s stupid comments in favour of a completely different debate. What does this have to do with the tea in China? Let alone, tomndebb’s response to this