How Should We Remember the Chechen Deportations?

Sixty years ago today, nearly every single Chechen, along with nearly all members of other North Caucasian peoples (the Ingush, Karachai, and Balkars), was rounded up and deported to Kazakhstan and Siberia. This was ostensibly because Stalin feared they would not be loyal to the Soviet Union in the face of the German advance toward Azerbaijan’s oil wells, although there is essentially no evidence to suggest there was any factual basis for this allegation. Many of the deportees died (estimates range from 25-50%) in transit or during the initial period of resettlement in camps, and they were not allowed to return to their ancestral homelands for decades after the war ended. In the meantime, other people had been resettled in their homes and on their land.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3509933.stm

In a recent thread, it was suggested that calling attention to people other than Jews who suffered during the Holocaust minimizes the impact of the Holocaust on the Jewish people, and thereby dishonors their memory (and may carry a tinge of anti-Semitism). So then what level and type of observance do you consider appropriate for other persecuted peoples, and under what circumstances?

More background and current developments in Chechnya:

“The Punished Peoples of the Soviet Union: The Continuing Legacy of Stalin’s Deportations”

http://www.hrw.org/reports/pdfs/U/USSR/USSR.919/usssr919full.pdf (large .pdf file)

“Briefing to the 60th Session of the UN Commission on Human Rights”

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/01/29/russia7248.htm

Oh, come on, Eva. You should know better than this.

The thread you refer to was about Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ, for those who did not partake of that clambake. The discussion you inaccurately refer to centered around Gibson’s being asked in an interview if the Holocaust existed, and his coming back with a wandering response that dragged in all sorts of unrelated events including the 1930s famine in the Ukraine. No one in that thread suggested that remembering other victims of the Holocaust dishonored the memory of slain Jews. Go read the thread again, if you have the stomach for it.

In this case, it is entirely reasonable and proper for you to discuss past and current atrocities committed in Chechnya. No one should interrupt you by saying “You’re always talking about the Chechens. How about the victims of the Khmer Rouge? What about Bosnia? Let’s hear more about the Rape of Nanking.”

Out of respect for your (purported) subject matter, the Chechens, this will be my one and only post of this nature to your self-hijacked thread. It is sad that in attempting to revive the rancor of the previous thread, you are distracting attention from the people whose plight you claim to want to publicize.

Jackmanii, are you going to address the OP in any depth? I started this thread to talk about the Chechens and other oppressed North Caucasian peoples; the rest was simply for context, nothing more and nothing less. I’d really rather not hijack. Feel free to bump the other thread if you have anything left to say on the matter. Let other posters draw their own conclusions about the nature of the discussions in the previous thread, and what they do or don’t say about Mel Gibson and anti-Semitism. I thought we’d pretty much beaten that horse to death, personally.

But I think the number of responses on this thread so far (in contrast to the number of responses it would have had if it were about the deaths of Jews in the Holocaust) is a decent indicator of the level of knowledge about and/or interest in the Chechens among the membership of this board, that is to say, almost none.

Why is that? Is it something that we, as a society, should work to change? If not, then why not? If so, then how?

This thread may not garner the same level of interest as a thread about a controversial movie, but here are a couple of questions to get the ball rolling:

Most of what seems to get into the news about Chechnya currently relates to terror attacks that are blamed on Chechen rebels. Do you think media reporting is insufficient concerning Russian policy in the region, and what might be responsible for that?

How does modern Russian (and previously, Soviet) policy toward the region differ from what occurred under Czarist Russia?

What are your proposed solutions to the conflict?

Maybe the number of responses on this thread would have been bigger if you hadn’t dragged the Jews in, again.

Yes, I think most mainstream media reporting on the Chechen situation is very biased. In part this is because of a lack of background of Western media audiences regarding the history of the current Chechen conflict. The Chechens never wanted to be part of the Russian Empire in the first place, and it took decades for the Czarist armies to gain military control over the North Caucasus. (See Moshe Gammer, * Muslim Resistance to the Tsar: Shamil and the Conquest of Chechnia and Dagestan. *) Conflicts flared up again during a brief period of absence of government control immediately after the Russian Revolution, and have flared up at various points to a greater or lesser degree over the last 15 years.

If you leave out the history leading up to the current conflict, then it just looks like the Chechen rebels are committing a mindless, aimless bunch of terrorist attacks against innocent civilians. Yes, various bunches of rebels have committed terrorist attacks against civilians, but that’s not the whole picture, and also does a grave disservice to the bulk of the Chechen population, who are victims both of history and of current circumstance.

Reasons why media reporting is insufficient? For starters, the RF government has been very selective about who they will let into the region at all. One Radio Free Europe reporter was arrested and held incommunicado for his reporting on Chechnya, and a French reporter (Anne Nivat: see her book, Chienne de Guerre: A Woman Reporter Behind the Lines of the War in Chechnya) was unceremoniously kicked out of the RF for defying the restrictions on reporting from Chechnya (she was denied permission to enter the area). Frankly, I think the lack of demand for news on Chechnya is circular: nobody here knows what’s going on there, so nobody cares, so nobody reports on it. That’s how Putin can get away with calling it a “Russian internal conflict,” and we leave him pretty much alone, and then he can cast his Chechen campaigns as battles in his own “war on terrorism.”

The only difference I’ve seen so far is that it’s somewhat sneakier, because the Soviet and RF governments have had to at least pay lip service to common ideals of human rights and equality for political reasons, whereas under the Russian Empire, there weren’t the same kinds of formalized international accords in which nations agreed to respect the human rights of their indigenous peoples. The Chechens are guaranteed a number of rights under the Soviet and the current Russian Constitutions, among which are state support for their language and culture. That ain’t happening. And Grozny and various other Chechen cities have been bombed to death, and very little in the way of resources or political effort have been invested in rebuilding. Of course, it’s hard to rebuild if there’s still a war going on.

If I knew that, I’d be up for the Nobel Peace Prize. It’s a situation almost as sticky as the Middle East, although of much shorter duration (although in the Chechen case, there is no question of who was there first). Trust between the two sides is almost completely shattered. For starters, how about the Army stops “disappearing” Chechen men of military age? And removing restrictions on the movement of civilians between villages and cities? The terrorist attacks committed by some Chechen rebels against civilians didn’t start until after the Army tanks rolled into Chechnya and the RF Army started bombing the crap out of cities and villages inhabited by civilians, so I think it is incumbent upon the RF government/military to take the firs step toward rebuilding trust.

But all this is still pretty much a hijack. The deportations happened, and a large proportion of the Chechen people died, and all this is pretty much ignored outside Chechnya and dismissed even within the RF. I think that’s fundamentally wrong, and I think we as a society need to acknowledge it and other human rights abuses, both past and current. To me, the only question is how, and in what venue(s). I await your suggestions.

You yourself linked to sources regarding current abuses, including the report of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights regarding Chechnya, so I have no idea why you’d label my questions and your responses as a hijack.

It would undoubtedly be most useful to the Chechens to focus as much attention as possible on the current situation in the region through this forum and other venues, to contact one’s representatives regarding policy towards Russia and examine whether pressure could be brought on that nation through its trade with America.

Have you worked with American universities regarding adequate inclusion of accounts of Chechen deportations in courses on Russian history?

Well, I’d say posting about it on internet Bulletin Boards and trying to raise grass-roots awareness about the situation in Chechniya is probably a good start… I, personally, learned about the Chechen/N. Caucasian deportation from your posts, so you can give yourself a point for one more person aware of it thanks to your work! :slight_smile:

And I still don’t see why you had to drag the previous train-wreck of a thread into it… Every catastrophe is a disaster in and of itself, and should be commemorated separately. One needn’t bring up every humanitarian issue for comparison every time. Commemorate the Chechen deportation today, the Jewish Holocaust on Yom Ha’Shoa, the Romani Holocaust on whatever date they see fit, and the Armenian Genocide whenever the Armenians think is the right time to do so, and so on (Rwanda, Cambodia, ad infinitum, ad nauseum…) remembering one does not denigrate the others!

Dani

Well, honestly what got me a bit more focused in my thinking about proportional representation/observance of other instances of persecution was the other thread. My mom says I have a terrible habit of mentioning things in conjunction with each other without explaining all the intermediate logical steps my brain took in getting from one idea to the other; I guess it carries over to my writing as well. My fingers just can’t keep up.

(And **Noone Special, ** one of my absolute favorite books on the North Caucasus was written by an Israeli journalist whose parents are Holocaust survivors; check out Yo’av Karny’s Highlanders: A Journey to the Caucasus in Quest of Memory. I’d love to have a cup of coffee and talk to that guy someday. The book really makes you feel like you’re there, and gives some interesting insights into the Caucasian mountaineer mindset. It was published only a couple of years ago, so it shouldn’t be too hard to find. Amazon review: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0374528128/qid=1077579645/sr=1-20/ref=sr_1_20/104-8468367-4186344?v=glance&s=books#product-details )

At the moment, whatever action I myself can take is very much at the grassroots level; I’m not affiliated with any school or university, and I’d hate to restrict the effectiveness of what I do to such a self-selecting group as college students who choose to take a course focused on Russian history. (Although whatever courses I did take in Russian history certainly devoted what I felt was an appropriate amount of attention to it, but then if one takes a grad seminar in Russian Imperial and Soviet-era nationalities policy [ethnic relations policy in FSU jargon] one would certainly hope so.) I know what I can do, and I do take action in this medium, and in others.

But I’m not so much interested for purposes of this thread in what I as an individual can do, but in what should be done in general. Let’s sort that out first, and then make everyone’s respective political action to-do lists afterward. What factors should determine which instances of persecution get mainstream public attention, such as in public holiday observances or school curricula, and what weight should the various factors be given? Why shouldn’t there be a North Caucasian Deportees Remembrance Day in Russia, for example?

Probably because there are too many holidays in Russia already. They have ‘Holy Crap, They Blew up a Subway-Day’ and 'Now This is Exciting Theater! Day. I don’t think Russia can stand too many more Chechan holidays.

Ahhh, Brutus. I should have known you’d show up here eventually. How very enlightened and constructive of you.

So I suppose you would blame and punish 1,000,000 civilians for the actions of a few people who have been driven off the deep end by the hopelessness of the situation?

Driven off the deep end? That is nothing but apologizing for terrorism. Sorry, they just couldn’t take it anymore, and just had to kill some women and children! :rolleyes:

Just as America will not let a state secede, Russia will not allow Chechnya to secede. Just that simple. And we are not going to alienate Russia to placate some Islamic extremists, so perhaps your efforts would be better spent on convincing Chechens (and their imported Jihadists) to stop blowing up on subways, seizing hospitals, etc?

Hey Eva. Before you bemoan the lack of Board interest in the Chechnens please note the lack of response I got to my thread on “Genocide: when to intervene?” .

When does something cease being a matter of sovereign concern and become a human rights violation worthy of involvement by outsiders? How do we judge that? I didn’t get many takers for debate.

The sad truth seems to be that tragedies need human faces to “sell” them. Survivors. Witnesses. Photos. Promoters. Ideally the victims should be individuals that the general public can identify with. And intervention must be easy and in alignment with other self-interests. Or require someone else to do something and no sacrifice from us at all. So we can feel good about ourselves by looking after number one. You do not need all of these factors to sell a tragedy, but the more you have the more intertest you’ll garner. Sad truth, it is hard to get people interested in the pains of “the other” that doesn’t involve them.

The Chechens don’t do it. Although I applaud your effort.

I did see your thread, and I think part of the reason you got so few takers was indeed the abstract nature of the OP. It’s so hard to say, and there are so many variables, and so rarely is reality a case of pure altruism.

Brutus, you may note the distinct lack of Chechen rebels blowing up uninvolved civilians before the invasion/bombing of Chechnya, or even for a good while after the early '90s campaign. Yes, I do think it was at least partially a cause/effect relationship.

I think you’re being a little unfair, leaving all the blame on Russia’s doorstep. The Chechen must take their share for their pitiful situation. Now I don’t know how the media reporting is where you’re at, but around here it’s been overwhelming pro Chechen – at least until they started to blow up children. The Russians I know all want peace like nothing else. General Lebed was nearly canonised after brokering the first peace agreement. Putin was elected on a Chechen peace program. But the Russian position is not enviable. The prospect, taught by history, of a crime ridden, fundamentalist regime on their southern border is not appealing. And there is the little bit about Chechen in fact being a legal Russian republic. There are no international laws that give credence to their independence.

I think it’s incorrect to say everything was alright with Chechen until the (Russian) bombing started. The modern Chechen (post Soviet) problem started off with large scale expulsion of ethnic Russians. Following the first Chechen civil war under Jeltsin, they did have a spell of a few years of defacto independence which they choose to use to create a streamlined abduction business, weapons and narcotics and slave trade, and a rule something of a mix between total anarchy and a Taliban like repressive theocracy and finally an invasion of neighbouring country Dagestan for the purpose of spreading a fanatical religious revolution. The Russians had no option but to intervene again. Had the Chechen succeeded in creating a viable state which did not threaten (or indeed abduct and invade) their neighbours and with an acceptable rule – it would have been exceedingly hard for the Russians to claim them back. Their failure, if regrettable, is mostly of their own doing. They blew it – literally. And when they now choose to pursue their goals by terror, suicide bombings helped on by international Jihadists and Mujahadin terrorists – well they themselves dig their own grave deeper. It makes little difference who started and when, terrorist actions like that at the Moscow theatre, metro suicide bombing, train and bus attacks etc. are completely unacceptable – whether they occur on Manhattan, in Haifa or Moscow.

  • Rune

Is there no middle ground between allowing secession and committing all-out destruction and/or genocide? Winston Smith, when you talk about how “they” blew it, I wish you’d be a bit more specific in describing who “they” are.

There’s been almost no reporting about Chechnya here at all recently; you have to look really hard for it, absent events like the theater hostage situation. (That’s why my friend forwarded me the BBC article; you just don’t see that stuff in U.S. papers, unless something big is going on.) However, the overwhelming majority of Chechens did not invade Dagestan or abduct people or trade in weapons and narcotics. Is leveling an urban area an appropriate response to criminal activity, even on the part of relatively large numbers of people?

I never said everything was alright in Chechnya; I sure wouldn’t want to live there, for a whole host of reasons. But the evidence I’ve seen and the Russians I’ve known suggest that RF public opinion toward Chechens isn’t exactly favorable, and that few people stop to interview individual Chechens about their political or religious views before making up their minds about them (usually negatively). I remember discussing current levels of anti-Semitism in Russia with a Muscovite friend of Jewish extraction and my mom; Mom is convinced that anti-Semitism is an open daily occurrence for every Jew in the FSU, so I asked my friend to tell Mom the reaction he would get, say, upon stepping into a taxi. He said the driver would generally glance at him and breathe a sigh of relief that he was a Jew rather than a Chechen.

People of Caucasian appearance are routinely discriminated against and hassled by police to show their residence permits in the large, primarily Slavic Russian cities. Another snippet for you:

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/eca/russia032003.htm

Heck, when I was in Russia the first time, most of the people I hung out with were North Caucasians, and after a while I started to speak Russian with a noticeably Caucasian accent. Combined with my somewhat ethnic appearance, I was frequently taken for a Caucasian, and the difference in the way I was treated was rather noticeable. I imagine it would have been even worse for a man; he would be seen as a greater threat.

Not I, but you started by referring to the Chechen people instead of the people of Chechnya. And yes, as a people they must bear some collective responsibility for the crimes against foreigners planned and perpetrated from their country as well as the conduct of their government – such as it is. Anyway if I’m not mistaken, they have already been granted extensive self-determinism, within the Russian republic. That popular Russian sentiments on Chechens are not entirely favourable is hardly surprising, considering the string of terror bombings, hijacks and hostage operations done by Chechen terrorists against civilian Russians, women and children. I suppose it could be compared to popular American sentiments of Saudi Arabia in the days following 9/11. Of course it’s not fair to damn a whole people for the actions of a few. But nobody is perfect. The Americans aren’t. The Russians aren’t. The Chechen aren’t.

We’ve seen quite a lot of Chechnya coverage around here, because of some debacle with a world congress and Russian extradition demands.

  • Rune

Well, at this point, the vast majority of the people of Chechnya are ethnically Chechen. I sure wouldn’t want to be an ethnic Slav living in Chechnya right now, either; even in 1989, the date of the last Soviet census, only about 25% of the population of Chechnya was ethnically Slavic (about 65% were Chechens and 10% various other ethnic groups, mostly other North Caucasian ones), and most of those have left or been killed by now. (A bit of linguistic trivia for you: in Russian, there are two words which translate into English as “Russian;” one means “ethnically Russian,” and one means “pertaining to the territory of the Russian Federation.” The name of the Russian Federation uses the adjectival form of the latter. I don’t think there are analogous terms for non-Russians in the FSU, like, say, a single word for Armenian that distinguishes between place of residence and ethnicity.) And I think I’ve drawn the linguistic distinction where appropriate, in any case.

So then you believe individual citizens bear responsibility for the actions of their leaders, even if those leaders were appointed from outside and/or elected in less than democratic circumstances? And the even more extreme case, that an ethnic group bears collective responsibility for the actions of a small fringe of its most radical members? Ick.

Actually, I think the comparison with American popular sentiment toward Arabs/Muslims (or those perceived as such, even if inaccurately) after 9/11 is pretty much spot-on, but then I wasn’t exactly in favor of that, either.

All democracies are less than democratic, but even dictatorships do not absolve the people from all responsibility. Yes I firmly believe we are all to some extend responsible for each other and in particular for out government. You do not? Ick.
To what extend such responsibility reach obviously depends on the situation. And I did explicitly put it in with the part where Chechnya was a de facto nation, because I was not talking about ethnic but national responsibility. And even if you do not feel any responsibility for America’s war in Iraq, I assure you I’ve not now and will not in the future try to escape mine for my own government’s involvement in same conflict.

I didn’t mean to imply they were commendable. Only that they were very human.

  • Rune

Well, I didn’t vote for any of the people who got the U.S. sucked into the Iraq war, and I oppposed it quite actively and visibly in a number of concrete ways. Am I in any way responsible for the U.S. invasion of Iraq because I didn’t attempt a suicide bombing against any of its active participants? I don’t think so.

So then to what extent is the average non-rebel inhabitant of Chechnya responsible for the actions of the rebels? Especially given that Chechen rebels have been known to assassinate anyone viewed as collaborating with the pro-Moscow administration?