In this thread there was some discussion of the physical strength of cats and how their body shape and structure influenced their ability to pounce and leap. This got me thinking about my own species, and I recalled an article I once read in (I think) Scientific American about new advances in technology.
One of the machines being shown was a powered harness that could be strapped onto a human being to enable him or her to lift far more than what a normal human was capable of lifting. It’s designer was interviewed and said that one of the biggest challenges in designing the suit was powering it. According to him it was nearly impossible to design a power source that was as efficient as the human body – he also said that if you stripped all the muscle off a human, laid them end to end, and put them in full retraction, they’d lift about three tons, and that they “run on carrots” which I found amusing for some reason.
We’re ahead of most robots for the time being in efficiency at least, but what about other animals? I know our closest living relative, the chimpanzee, is far more physically powerful than the average human. Why is that? Is it the upright posture? I’d imagine it’s not the sturdiest frame and it certainly isn’t the fastest. Any comments from the physical science Dopers?
While everybody knows that chimpanzees are far more powerful than humans, there isn’t much reason to believe it is true. Chimapnzeees tend to be more muscular than most humans because they execrise constantly, but there have been tests published that show that in terms of raw sterngth an Olympic level male gymnast and a chimpanzee are about on par, with te man being slightly stronger weight-for-weight on the lower body and the chimpanzee slightly stroner in the upper, as you would expect. I’ll see if I can find the article.
Chimps and other animals can appear strong because they have four legs which gives them better traction than people. They also have a tendency to ‘go ape’ where they hurl things around with gay abandon. One of the most common references for the strecth of chimps is some ape that supposedly moved a huge weight while angry. Of course what is seldom reported is that the chimp was baced against a pole at the time and pulling using all four limbs. Even an averageman could achieve the same result.
I would be interested in a few cites on that Blake, I hope you can find them. You see, so many sites out there claim that chimps are strong. Even the Master speaks of this.
As far as moving static weights goes, chimps are stronger, because of the way their ligaments attach to their joints.
Joints are levers, which can be rigged to either provide high torque at a slow speed, or high speed at low torque, depending upon whether the ligaments attach close to or far from ( relatively) the joint.
Chimpanzee upper body joints are leveraged to provide high torque, but a chimp isn’t going to throw anything anywhere effectively. Humans have upper body joints that are optimized for throwing spears and other ranged weapons, but are not arranged for as high a torque.
This is why chimps appear stronger in their upper bodies.
“An adult chimpanzee can grow to be more than 175 pounds in captivity and about 4 feet tall when standing upright. At seven times the strength of a human”
This is referring to a chimp in captivity. It also states that “wild” chimps are larger and stronger than captive ones.
hmmm…
Not shooting ya down Blake because I agree that an above average human, an olympic weightlifer might be on par with an average chimpanzee. But, what if we had the ability to have him go one on one with the strongest chimp…
he’d be <dead meat> IMHO
Not to even mention the mountain gorillas and other great apes.
If we could compare the strength of Neanderthal Man to modern man and animals as well. We might find that out ancestors probably were comparable physically. But evolution dictated that we use our minds and as a result we didn’t need the brute strength to survive.
As a matter of fact, I believe due to food shortages, famines, ice ages, etc. it is quite possible that our survival is partially due to our decreased size and/or need for food.
It is not necessarily true that “the strong survive”.
I haven’t seen too many giants/dinos./mastadons/etc. around lately.
The average human does good to be able to lift their own weight. (in addition to themselves of course)
Most animals are capable of better…AFAIK.
I worked for a vet. once upon a time…you would be amazed at the strength of some critters. (need to google some facts)
Cecil seems to have been working off the same old data. At least he notes that the chimps had their feet braced while achieveing those pulls. What he doesn’t mention is that the humans apparenlty didn’t. Doesn’t it seem odd that a man could only pull about one and a half times his own weight with feet braced?
The other point to note is that 165 pounds is prety average for a human in the 5’10 inch range. Compare this to a gymnast who weighs in at 160 pounds at only 5’6". ( http://gostanford.ocsn.com/sports/m-gym/mtt/mccolgan_bryan00.html)> Cecil doesn’t say whether the man used was an average scmo or a trained athlete. Weight without height is a bit misleading because humans and chimps have different sizes.
I’ll see if I can find the actual publication.
Hard to say. If chimps aren’t much stronger I’d personally put my money on a trained fighter over an animal. Of course this is all speculation.
Maybe if you include women and even then I’m not sure. The fact that the average healthy adult will comfortably do a couple of chin ups proves that lifting your own weight is no great task. The average (healthy) human male will comfortably lift and cary well over his own weight.
Put it this way. I see a one arm pull the equivilant of a dumbell row. Now, I have spent some time in the gym, being a bit of a gym rat, and I generally handle only around 75lbs on a bent over row(been lifting for 1 1/2 now or so), and I have NEVER seen anybody do 210 lbs. Even some of the behemoths at the gym don’t do that. (one armed mind you) And those are the steroid ridden, much bigger and stronger than the typical human.
The average human does good to be able to lift their own weight. (in addition to themselves of course)
If you would not take my words out of context it would help. I said in addition to themselves This means actually picking up something (not a chin up or a push up) Although a couple of chin ups is not very impressive IMO.
I really doubt that the average human can lift 165 lbs. over their head. I work in the landscaping business…okay, I do it all day some days. I’ve seen many grown men (young and old) attempt to lift and carry a cross tie, MOST CAN’T.
I’ve also seen a “small” chimp, throw a large man across a room before. and before anybody asks, No he was not “Chimp Lee”
Besides I think the OP was speaking in more general terms.
A dumbell row, properly executed, does not use you legs at all. The chimps were using their legs as well as their upper body. The one arm pull we are talking baout here is not even close to a dumbell row, since the dumbell row doesn’t even attempt to use the strongest muscle groups in the body. A better comparison would be dumbbell squats using only one hand. In reality when we want to compare a chimp bracing against a pole we are talking about somehing like a full body dead lift using one only one hand. It’s hard to think of a valid gym equivalent.
So you are saying that if I got the average man to squat down and placed someone 2 pounds heavier than him on his back he could never stand up again no matter how he tried? If that’s average I must associate woith a lot of unaverage people. I honestly don’t know anyone who couldn’t get to their feet under that load.
Who said they could? I said that they could lift it. I don’t consider myself particularly strong and I know I can lift another man my own weight from the ground and run 100 metres carrying him across my shoulders. Every other man there on the day also did the same, and they weren’t particualrly strong either, on avaerage. Just normal healthy human males.
Now I probably couldn’t lift him over my head for very long and I wouldn’t throw him far. But that’s not a fair comparison. I’m sure that chimps wouldn’t throw a 5 kilo weight as far as me. that doesn’t say anything for strength, it’s just diferent lever setup.
