How the heck do they lose a plane?

Catching up on the news I find that a plane has gone ‘missing’ in Angola since May!

News 24 Story

Besides the obvious worries about mssing planes the thing that concerns me most is how do you lose a plane.:confused:

Now I’m not the most organised of individuals but even I would notice if I had mislaid my car, let alone a plane!!

As I understand it there was an unathorised take off from Angola and then it disappeared.

There are several assumptions I making but I think they are reasonable. I’m assuming that airports have radar. This leads me to the following questions:

[ul]
Could they not track it until it at least dropped off radar?
How low do you have to fly to avoid radar?
Can you realistically fly a 727 at those heights?
Can an air traffic controller not inform anyone so that tracking could continue from other airports?
How difficult is it to find suitable non-airport landing strips for a 727?
[/ul]

INA expert in aviation but losing a Cessna is conceivable but a 727!?!?

Dopers - put me out of my misery and explain how the heck this happened

Now I must get back to looking for that multi-storey carpark - I know I left it round here somewhere :smack:

Actually, quite a few airports don’t have radar. Sure, O’Hare, LAX, Heathrow, etc. have it, but many others don’t, including fields large enough to have passenger or cargo service in big jets, even in the US and Europe. In Africa, it’s even more common to have such services at an airport without radar. Even if there’s a control tower, they may or may not have radar. Given how often the radar around my home area crashes (I live and fly near Chicago) I would expect that in many parts of Africa, where there is less money and many maintenance issues, even where there is radar it’s not always working.

If they had radar, yes… Also, airplanes have this device called a “transponder” that, among other things, makes them more visible to radar. If the thieves turned it off it would make the airplane harder to track (not impossible, just harder). In fact, this was one of the tactics used on Septemeber 11.

I’m not sure that’s exactly the question you want to know the answer to… what you’re asking is how to avoid showing up on radar, yes?

There are several ways to do this. One is, as you suggested, to fly low. How low depends on where you are. In my area, you’d have to stay under 1200 feet in most areas, under 700 in others. In Alaska, you might not be on radar regardless of your altitude because there may be no radar coverage in a particular area. An air navigation chart for the part of Africa in question would be able to give us an answer, but I don’t happen to have any African sectionals or WAC’s in my possession.

Another tactic is to fly so slow that the computer editing on some radar systems simply drops you off the screen. This editing helps controllers keep track of airplanes by keeping flocks off geese off their screens. If you can slow your airplane down to the speed of a goose or sparrow you drop off these systems – but a 727 can’t fly that slow (well, maybe in a hurricaine) so we know that didn’t happen in this case.

You can also fly behind a mountain or, if you’re near Chicago or New York, behind really huge tall buildings. These obstacles provide a radar “shadow”.

And, as already mentioned, turning off the transponder makes you harder to see.

It is NOT realistic to fly a 727 at 1200 feet or less for anything signficant length of time. For one thing, folks would notice. That would hide you from radar, not from other forms of observation. For another, jet engines are not very efficient at that altitude - they’re designed to fly much higher. You’d burn a hellacious amount of fuel. And there are other issues. Could you fly a 727 that low? Yes. In theory. Very unlikely that anyone would.

Possible. But not necessary to “lose” a plane. There are large areas of this planet that have no or minimal radar coverage for purposes of tracking airplanes. Pilots either know where these “holes” are, or they can easily find out. If the thieves fly into such an area they simply aren’t tracked and the airplane “disappears”.

You won’t be landing it in a hayfield, that’s for sure. At least, not more than once.

They don’t need a “non-airport” landing. They need an airport without radar where they can refuel. Such airports large enough to accomodate a 727 do exist. Or, they could build such a strip out in the wilderness somewhere. All you need is a strip of pavement and a tanker truck or two of jet fuel. It’s not cheap - but then, neither is it cheap to maintain a flying jetliner.

Alternatively, if they get the airplane to a secluded place then change the license numbers and transponder it changes the “identity” of the airplane and they’ll be able to go where they want with much less chance of rousing suspicion.

It takes money and a well-organized group of people to pull off this sort of theft, but clearly it is possible.

Something I wonder about in this context: Isn’t there any kind of lock (mechanical or electronic) on a large aircraft to prevent its operation by unauthorized personnel?

Or can anyone who gets physical access to the cockpit of an aircraft take off with it? (assuming sufficient training, enough fuel and obstacle-free access to a runway, of course).

The simplest way to aviod being seen is to persuade the viewer that it is in his best intrest to see nothing. This can easily be accomplished by various means.[ul]
[li]Money[/li][li]Threats to the viewer[/li][li]Threats to the viewer’s family or friends.[/li][li]Appeals to personal loyalty[/li][li]Appeals to national loyalty[/li][li]Appeals to tribal loyalty (often stronger in Africa than any bond other than family).[/li][li]Deceit[/li][li]Appeals on the basis of shared religious beliefs.[/li][li]Appeals on the basis of shared hatreds (Europeans/Americans/Israelis etc.).[/li][/ul]

Thanks - I really didn’t know that. :slight_smile:

I suppose it is redundant if there was no radar but I wanted to know how they would avoid being tracked by radar if it existed.

Thanks for your answers on those points - they back up what I thought.

Does anyone have a clue on how big an airport they have at Angola? Do they have radar?

I was wondering if it was possible once they were out in the middle of nowhere to drop off radar (i.e. below 1200-700ft). Again your answer backs up what I was thinking i.e possible but difficult and probably dangerous. It will also severly restrict the distance that they can continue undetected due to the massively increased fuel consumption.

This is exactly my point. If they land at another airport - surely someone would notice. Or have records of some sort to give the authorities a new starting point.

Otherwise I imagine they are limited areas that you can land one - again refining the search area.

If they flew into a ‘Radar-Hole’ and not out again surely this gives you a great place to start. Unless of course they fly into a known hole and out again at below radar altitude. Are these below radar altitudes known or guess work? Do they give you a map with operating radar heights or something?

Please excuse my ignorance but would they be ‘cloning’ the plane or would they create a whole new identity? Is there no tracking of what plane should be where at what time? I would have thought that some sort of centralisation of this information would have been put in place since 9/11.

Does it not raise any eyebrows when a plane that didn’t arrive somewhere, suddenly leaves there? Or a plane just appears out of a radar hole with no record of entering it?

Broomstick - many thanks for your detailed reply and I’m sorry if I’m asking dumbass questions but to me it still completley beggars believe that it is apparently this easy to steal a plane and make it just disappear!!!

Still bemused & :confused: !!

ianlyte my sister sent me a link to that same article and asked your question as well, so don’t feel like it’s an “ignorant” question!

Back when I was still flying for Uncle Sam I flew into Luanda, Angola, along with almost every other capital city in Africa. What Broomstick said about radar is true - it is virtually non-existant in Africa. Egypt and South Africa have en-route radar, but other than that you’re on your own. Almost the entire continent - especially the western part around Angola - is a “radar hole”. Some bigger airports have a terminal radar (ie for approaches and departures) but their range is very small - say 40 miles from the airport. Outside of that, there is NOTHING to track an airplane with. Separation of traffic is done by timing and long-range radios. Communication between countries is spotty at best, so even aircraft on flight plans who are supposed to be kept track of sometimes fall out of the system. Angola was particularly bad - no radar at all, and almost no communication with neighboring countries. Combine that with almost non-existant security, and I felt lucky to get out of there with an intact airplane.

As for landing it somewhere - remember that Africa is a HUGE continent. If the druggies can have airfields in Colombia and Peru to land jets and refuel and repaint them, it’s certainly doable in Africa. All it takes is a flat piece of land and some 50-gallon drums filled with Jet-A. You do NOT need all of the infrastucture that we normally associate with an airport - a tower, lights, taxiways, terminals, jetbridges, etc. Just a long, flat area (paved is better, but not necessary) and some fuel. Put it far into the middle of nowhere and no one will see the plane land who isn’t part of the scheme.

I’m sure your sister will be as glad not to be lumped into the ignorant category as I am :slight_smile:

OK - Broomstick sand Pilot141 have convinced me that pinching a plane in Angola is not too tricky. By all account shockingly easy :eek:

Now I’m not sure if this is taking the thread too far off the OP but here goes - surely the threat of using these planes in a 9/11-esque attack is now effectively restricted to the close vicinity to Angola?

Or is there really no alerts generated when an un-announced airplane enters a countries’ airspace? Can the authorities not check that this plane is where it should be and if not direct it somewhere safe?

To me it seems like common sense but having said that - so did a lot of the very painful things I did when I was younger!! :smack:

Pilot141 - do you have to file a flight plan when making an international flight? Are these not co-ordinated with the country that you are flying to/over? If a plane appears on radar that doesn’t have a flight plan filed - what is the procedure?

So many questions - so little time!! Evidently from some of my previous posts - not even enough time for a thorough spel-chekin

Well, it seems like you’re wondering how difficult it would be to get this airplane somewhere so that it could be used for a terrorist attack. To start with, moving it around Africa shouldn’t be much of a problem - after all, without radar, how are you going to know if someone is in your airspace? If you have a suitably remote airfield set up, you could fly the thing up to Algeria without anyone ever knowing about it.

Yes, for international flights you are supposed to file a flight plan. But if you are taking off from a remote field, flying over a bunch of countries with no radar coverage and landing at another remote field, who’s gonna know? Like I said in my earlier post, the “radar hole” is pretty much the whole continent of Africa minus Egypt and South Africa.

Now, once this airplane tries to enter a county’s airspace that has radar, they will either need a flight plan or will need to avoid the radar. Avoiding radar can be done, but at the cost of a huge fuel penalty and flexibility as to the route you fly (try crossing the Alps while maintaining 1,000 ft AGL in a 727 - it’s not going to happen).

My guess is they would repaint the airplane with some fake registration numbers and grease a few palms in some country to allow the airplane to land and “appear” in the system. All it takes is this first entry into the system - once it’s there, they can file a flight plan and go wherever they want. The US is obviously looking for 727s in Africa, but there are hundreds if not more of them running around, all being sold and re-registered as companies go under and new ones start. I’m sure that the stolen one and it’s fake registration would be tracked down eventually once it entered the system, but that could take a while. In the meantime, it could have departed Algiers and be on its way to London. If it took off from Algiers with a flight plan, why should anyone suspect it? The illegal part would be letting it land there in the first place and then letting it depart on a flight plan, but bribery can get you a long way. (And I’m using Algeria as an example only because it’s very close to Europe).

This is why the US is using satellite intel and everything else to try to find this airplane.

If it’s a vehicle, it can be lost. Anything that is built to get people from point A to point B and is not fixed in one spot can be steered off course for whatever reason. Even if the vehicle is ridiculously large, there are a lot of places you can lose it or hide it.

Wow - I never for one instant considered that it would be that easy. Again the SDMB helps me pull myself further out of the pool of ignorance!

I realise this is inviting WAGs but how long before this gets flagged up? I’m assuming nothing will be done in (in this example Algiers) as the palms are already ‘greased’ here. I’m asking how long it will take when this new fake or cloned number enters the system in the first ‘honest airspace’ it comes across.

What happen’s if you use numbers already taken (‘cloning’)? Can you clone a transponder?

I agree completely ElectroSunDog but its not the size of the vehicle that really surprises me. Although it does to a certain extent - you’re certainly not going to stick it in the garage to hide it - you need serious space to land and house one of these things. Can’t just throw a tarp over it in the garden!

What is amazing me is that once these things are in the air they are all identified (if on radar). Losing a car is relatively easy until you are stopped by the police when they check your Ferrari’s number plate and find it is a) stolen or b) that the plate belongs to a blue Fiat. This is a check that takes them two minutes.

As I understand it, and I am extrapolating from the other posts so any mistake is mine alone, there is no automatic checking once a plane in in the air. If it has a valid flight plan its OK. Eventually it does get flagged up as pilot141 says but the astounding thing to me is that this is not done more rapidly.

Technically I know there are camera systems that can identify a car’n number plate, flag it up if it is stolen or suspected of being involved in a crime. These digital systems are capable of processing 1000’s of cars per hour. It processes these details (as well as if the car is taxed, speeding etc) things in a matter of seconds. I can’t find the cite at the moment to back that up but I will look if pressed.

Why can’t we employ a similar system for air-traffic control?

Final daft question - why don’t planes have a good immobiliser (30 point) and a couple of hidden Trackers ™ that only Boeing (in this instance) know where they are? Of course there are saftey issues in having an immobiliser that will cut the engines out in flight so have it just to start the engines?

Again my thanks to pilot141 and broomstick for helping me out with their insight.

From Camridge Safety Camera Partnership Although this camera is not used for speeding as I mentioned in my previous post, it does back up the timings I mentioned

How would changing the transponder have anything to do with changing the identity of the airplane? What advantage would changing the transponder get you?

Doesn’t the transponder send out the identity of the aircraft kind of like an electronic number plane? Since you can’t see the plane visually, I thought air traffic control identified the planes electronically via their transponders?

Or am I once again way way off base on this?

Yes that should read ‘electronic number plate’ not plane

Dumbass!

The inherent problem that prevents an instant-search stolen-airplane alert system is that every country in the world has it’s own way of registering airplanes. Your state, province or country has ONE database for autos - only recently in the US has this been expanded to where all the states actually talk to each other. Try to encompass every nation on earth into your database - therein lies the problem.

The registration of an airplane is filed with the flight plan - but once again, try calling the Algerian or Angolan Aerospace Vehicle Registration Bureau at 2 AM on Saturday morning when this 727 shows up in your airspace. If the crooks bribed the right people, the number will come up as legit anyway. It will take some sleuthing around to find out that the number just materialized out of nowhere or used to belong to another airplane if the host government is helping to cover up that fact.

And ianlyte as to the immobilzer - that’s not really practical on an airplane. Airplanes are much more complicated than automobiles, and as such get worked on much more. Anything that can be added on can also be taken off or simply bypassed. There is nothing that Boeing could really “hide” from an owner of one of it’s airplanes. Whenever an airliner goes through a heavy “C”-check it is basically reduced to the bare metal for inspection and then rebuilt. And one more switch in the fuel line (to prevent starting the engines) just means one more thing that can go wrong - and you try to limit the amount of things that can fail.

Besides, this is a very small problem. Companies, countries and people that own jets are normally responsible enough to protect them - they are very expensive, after all. It seems that this group already had access to the airplane but needed someone to fly it and resorted to kidnapping him. Since he knew how to fly 727s, he would know how to get around any device that would prevent the engines from starting.

As to the transponder - yes they do identify the airplane to ATC, but not as in “This is airplane registration G-FAKE”. You are assigned a discrete transponder code when you get your clearance to fly your flight plan. This code is simply four numbers that allows ATC to pull up a “data block” on your flight - destination, route, planned speed and altitude, type of airplane. They need to know where you are going, how you want to get there, and what altitude and speed you want to fly at. They also need to know aircraft type to provide proper separation ( ie wake turbulence, differing speeds on approach). Transponder codes change every flight and sometimes during the flight - sometimes over the middle of nowhere ATC will say “Change squawk to 2345”. It’s just a means of keeping aircraft separately identified.

Now, the registration is filed with the flight and can be transmitted in the data block as well. But there is no “Insta-check” of registrations that I know of. Of course some flights are scrutinized more closely - if you file a flight plan from Cartagena Colombia to Key West FL at 2,000 ft you will probably get an escort from the US Customs service.

Once again, it goes back to getting into the system. If you have a registration that appears legit and file a proper flight plan, all your transponder will do is identify you as doing what you said you would do. These systems were designed for safety (keeping airplanes from hitting each other). Only now are they being morphed into security measures.

**Not really. A transponder usually has two modes, Mode A and Mode C. When a transponder receives a Mode A interrogation from radar, it replies with the squawk code that the pilot has dialed in. When it receives a Mode C interrogation, it will reply with the pressure altitude, as supplied by the aircrafts blind encoder or encoding altimeter. There is no tail number, aircraft type, pilots name, or anything like that associated with the transponder. The vast majority of controlled airspace (excluding Class A, you wouldn’t go up there to hide anyway) does not require the use of a transponder. The transponder is not some kind of Lo-Jac system for airplanes like they make it out to be in the movies.

P.S. They have Mode S now, which sends considerably more info than Modes A or C, but:

  1. I doubt this airplane had it,
  2. If it did, the Mode S coverage is limited anyway,
  3. They could just turn it off.

Last I knew, pretty much all airplanes were easy to get into. Getting at them now is a whole 'nuther story, of course.

(Just dress like a baggage handler and show up at an entrance to the field claiming this is your first day and you don’t have your ID yet and you were supposed to see Bill over at Gate 5 and you’re late and you can’t afford to lose this job and will you please just once let me in so I can go find Joe at Gate 16 to get your ID because I’m running late and need to get over there and unload that flight from Chicago? - a local news crew did pretty much just that a couple months ago at SFO and OAK and were successful each time - social engineering’s wonderful stuff)

Back to getting into airplanes. My ex specialized in aviation insurance for a while, and he had master keys for almost every GA airplane in North America, and the keys worked in some commercial jets as well. Just for fun, he tried it on a 737, and was successful. The special master keys? Oh, nothing more than one of those flat round keyring screwdrivers that Sears sells for $1.19 or so. Now that we’re in the age of reinforced cockpit doors, I’m hoping a real-live key is needed.

Beyond that, there’s no ignition key, as on a car. If you’ve been reasonably proficient at MS Flight Simulator, you’ll have a good idea of how to set up the knobs and switches to fire up the engines and go.

The master key for almost any GA piston aircraft can be a pair of wire cutters. Cut the P-leads (wires that ground the primary circuits of the magnetos, preventing them from firing), hand prop the airplane, and be on your way.

Very easy.

It depends where and when.

Like many workplaces, airports have a certain rythym. If you land at a time of day (or night) when few people are around no, it’s not a given someone would notice something amiss. I don’t know about Africa, but in this country I have paid for fuel with cash, credit card, debit card, or personal check - none of which could be directly connected to a particular aircraft. So… go in to someplace without air traffic control that mostly serves cargo or private jets during “off hours”, fuel up, pay cash, and go.

There are a lot of airports fitting that description in the US. Again, I’d expect to find that in Africa, too.

Even with the requirements to land or take-off a 727 there is a LOT of places you could land one. Airstrips over a certain length. Paved roads (provided there are no obstacles too close to the road, and the pavement can hold the weight). Certain terrain, such as the salt flats of the American west, can be used to land even the largest aircraft without any “development” at all. Africa is a BIG place, and a 727 can fly far. It’s a needle in a haystack situation.

OK, let’s step back and look at why we have ATC radar in the first place.

The reason we have ATC radar is to keep airplanes from colliding. It’s traffic control. The assumption has been (and largely still is) that everyone is honest and wants to obey the rules. It is NOT for national defense (that’s military radar) or for finding Bad Guys.

Thus, around O’Hare airport, you have a LOT of radar coverage because you have a LOT of airplanes converging in a small space (and several dozen smaller airports in the vicinity with THEIR traffic, too). In between big airports you have “en route” radar to keep airplanes going from point A to point B nicely spaced. But note this concerns commercial activities. If you don’t have commercial routes in an area you don’t need ATC radar and it doesn’t exist because it’s just not economic to build radar units no one needs.

Now, all the world’s airspace is divided into “classes”. For instance, from 18,000 to some altitude I can’t possibly reach in my plane (60,000?) is Class A - you MUST be on an instrument flight plan, there is no speed limit, and so forth. Class B is typically found around huge hubs like O’Hare, LAX, Kennedy, etc. and has particular requirements, as does C, D, E, and F (F is not found in the US for some reason). Now, there is this type of airspace called “G”, sometimes called uncontrolled airspace. There’s no radar coverage in Class G. All of these classes except Class A are indicated on navigational maps, including Class G.

Now, as to the size of these holes - in some cases they shouldn’t be called “holes”. Certainly, west of the Mississippi River North America has some very large areas designated Class G from the ground to 18,000 feet - meaning no radar coverage. And you can’t even get radar coverage until you’re 800 feet off the ground unless, maybe, they’ve got a unit right on the field at O’Hare.

Even close to Chicago, a pilot such as myself may dip in and out of “holes” in the radar coverage all day long. In part, it’s because I often fly very slow planes (On a couple occassions I’ve asked to be observed on radar and they couldn’t - I was fighting such a headwind my groundspeed dropped below the “edit” speed), very small planes, and I don’t fly very high, and if I fly along the Chicago lakefront the big buildings downtown cast a 1500 high radar shadow. So even in an area such as Chicago with heavy coverage a small plane can get “lost”. Now, a 727 flying that low is going to generate some calls to 911, again the size of the plane causes some complications.

So, “emerging” from a “radar-hole” is pretty routine, even in a busy area. In a remote area, or a place like Africa, it’s nothing remarkable at all.

Remember - ATC radar is to manage commercial aviation traffic. It was never intended to be a security system.

Hoo, that’s a bit complicated. I’ll save the “cloning” question for a later post dealing with transponders.

However, I don’t think the average person appreciates just how many airplanes there are. For every passenger jet on a given day that you see there are at least five other airplanes also up in the air. On a really nice day it might 10:1. And keep in mind that even a “mere” private pilot such as myself can legally fly pretty much anywhere I please on the entire planet. Add to that - the ATC system was never intended to be a security system. You have 50-60 years of rules and infrastucture to deal with, it’s complicated, it covers a huge area, it crosses governmental jurisdiction lines… it will take a LOT longer than just two years to “centralize” all the information.

As an example - imagine I wanted to keep track of every car in, say, Illinois at any given time. Now imagine that number of vehicles, but spread over the entire planet. It’s a daunting task, even with modern technology.

Once a plane lands and the flight plan is “closed” the entire record drops out of the system. No permanent records are kept. As I keep saying, the system was designed solely to manage traffic, not to keep track of individual planes long term, watch for Bad Guys, or any of that security stuff.

Well, a 727 is pretty big, I wouldn’t describe it as “easy” to repaint, just from the sheer size of what you have to cover. And by painting an airplane you can do strange things to the weight and balance so you wouldn’t want your Uncle Zeke to do it (unless he really knew what he was doing). But yes, it could be done.

If it’s a foreign registration it may just be accepted and not questioned unless something peculiar happens.

>cough< Actually, that probably would work - throw a camo tarp over it, sure, it would be hard to spot from the air… You’d need a BIG tarp but that isn’t too different from what the military does to conceal planes during some operations.

With cars, there is a system to check a license in minutes. There is no such system for airplanes. Maybe there will be in a few years - at least for airplanes within and registered by a particular country. No guarantee that it would be able to identify foreign-registered airplanes.

Yes. That is the case.

Let me throw another wrench in the works - you aren’t always required to file a flight plan. Sure, the airlines do so on every trip, but outside of certain commercial operations or instrument flights it’s not required in North America or a lot of other places. And there ARE privately owned jets. If, for example, Mr. Big Shot Movie Star decides to fly his own personal 707 from Los Angeles to Tampa, FL he could, in theory, do so without filing a flight plan provided he stays below 18,000 feet and in non-instrument weather and be perfectly legal (again, not likely due to increased fuel consumption, but possible in theory). MOST people do file one, even when not required, when traveling more than 50 miles because there are benefits to doing so but you don’t have to.

If you don’t close the flight plan within a half an hour of your specified time of arrival yes, someone will start looking for you. Pilots are told to be prepared to wait up to 72 hours to be found, although usually it doesn’t take that long. Why? Remember, airplanes can fly over terrain without roads that may be impassible to ground vehicles. Even if they know where you are there may be difficulty in getting to you.

It took years to put those systems in place for checking car registrations, license plates, etc. If we started today it would still take time to put one in place for airplanes, AND there is the complication that a lot of foreign planes have completely legitimate business within our airspace.

Also, cars, as a rule, can’t even beat 200 mph. Airplanes routinely fly much faster - the speed may complicate this sort of thing. It certainly complicates intercepting suspicious flights.