How to deal with an evangelical atheist boss?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Firstly, I mostly like my boss. She looks after her team (us), she’s quite sharp and efficient, and usually good fun at after-work drinks. She’s also a very outspoken non-religious atheist. I’m great with the non-religious atheist part, but she is making me feel harassed about my own personal practice.

I’m Reform Jewish and quite active in my congregation (I help with our homeless kitchen and women’s shelter programs, attend shul most Saturdays and come to evening Talmud study two or three times a month). I don’t bring it up at all at work, but this summer when I was booking my autumn holidays, my boss (making conversation) asked why I was taking Monday 28 September off. I told her that it was Yom Kippur.

“You’re Jewish?” Cue two months of quizzing me on my beliefs and practice, like so:

MY BOSS: So, you believe in god, then.
ME: Um, not really, actually.
MY BOSS: What? Yes you do! You must do, you go to your synagogue and things!
ME: Yeah, Judaism doesn’t really have ‘believing in god’ as a big part of its practice.
MY BOSS: But that’s not what it says in your Bible!
ME: We think that’s mostly metaphorical.
MY BOSS: [outraged] That’s absurd, that’s cheating. You’re trying to have it both ways!

It really felt to me less like ‘making conversation’ and more like ‘fishing for god-belief like Richard Dawkins talks about in order to whip out The God Delusion and prove…something’. I don’t mind Richard Dawkins, I think he’s quite sweet. But, as we discussed in a previous thread about him, I don’t think his arguments apply to mainsream Judaism at all. That’s fine; Dawkins will keep going on television and I’ll keep doing things at shul, and we will happily leave each other alone.

But my boss is making me very uncomfortable. We were out for a team pub lunch and I ordered a chicken club sandwich. It arrived with a nice thick rasher of bacon on top.

CO-WORKER: Oh, how come you get to eat bacon?
ME: Well, the Reform movement doesn’t–
MY BOSS: [interrupting] Judith is only Jewish when it suits her. She belongs to this fakey movement that lets you eat bacon and things.
ME: [to co-worker] Reform’s a bit more laid-back about halacha and dietary laws.
MY BOSS: See? That’s why all religion is pretty much rubbish.

That upset me a lot, and I sent her an email afterward saying, “Look, I know we disagree about religion but it bothers me when you make fun of my practice in front of other people. Let’s keep it out of the workplace.” She replied saying, “Point taken, sorry,” and I hoped that was the end of it.

Until (dum dum dum!) Friday before last, when I updated my Facebook (at lunch) with something about how excited I was for Simchat Torah that night.

MY BOSS: What’s Sim… I can’t even pronounce that.
ME: Well, we get the Torah scrolls out and dance around the synagogue with them. There’s sweets, it’s kind of a…
MY BOSS: [incredulous, I-cannot-believe-the-stupidity-of-the-words-that-have-just-left-your-mouth] Are you joking?
ME: …kids’ holiday.

It’s been quiet since then, but I’ve been very edgy whenever she starts making comments about idiot Creationists or irritating Jehovah’s Witnesses, even if I agree that Creationists are pretty moronic and evangelists of any stripe do more harm than good. I think she is directing these to me to “prove” that “all religion” is stupid, despite how Reform Judaism is effectively an atheist-agnostic religion and the primary form of engagement with our texts is intellectual (Talmud study).

Now, what I clearly need to do is stop taking the bait and just say, “I’m not comfortable talking about this in the workplace” when she brings up my own religious practice, but how do I deal with her talking about other religions as a way to score points? And should I bother talking to HR since she’s mostly stopped needling me about my practice specifically?

2

It sounds like you have a friendly relationship where these discussions are ok sometimes, so you need to clearly define where that line is. How about, “Look…I thought we agreed that this topic was not open for comment and discussion at work. I’m not taking the bait.” You can choose to make it off limits all the time, just at work, or whatever. You don’t have to smile when you say this. She’s got to understand that you aren’t going to play. Look right through her the next time she brings it up. If she continues to needle you in public, go to HR.

3

I second that. Draw a line of what is and is not appropriate. If she persists in crossing it, go to HR. I’m pretty sure the sorts of conversations you describe are venturing into the “hostile workplace” area, and religious beliefs are protected in most if not all jurisdictions.

On the downside, good luck getting Yom Kippur off next year…

4

Is your boss generally lacking in self-awareness? By that, I mean, does she say other things that are also somewhat inappropriate for the setting that potentially discomfort other people? Or is it really just this religion issue?

5

Gyrate, do you mean that you think she would block my taking religious holidays off for no reason but spite? I don’t think that’s in character. I would definitely talk to HR about a harassment complaint if that happened, and probably start looking for a new job.

sandra_nz, I don’t think it’s a lack of self-awareness as much as aggressive smugness and superiority. It’s not a bad trait in our line of work, but it is when it spills into internal company activity.

6

If you have a friendly enough relationship, I’d go a step past the “set some boundaries” thing and flat out tell her that being harangued about your beliefs is equally offputting whether you’re being told there is no God, or that you’re going to hell for not believing in him. Telling people that their beliefs are stupid is, if nothing else, a serious social faux pas, and perhaps she’ll understand if you compare her to your (fictional if necessary) Uncle Hal who’s always preaching brimstone.

7

On the one hand I sympathize with you, and acknowledge you should be able to politely and politically remove religion from the list of acceptable workplace conversations. And your boss sounds like a clueless idiot, although I suspect it likely that she does not intend anything bad by her statements/questions.

On the other, as an atheist it is kinda refreshing to hear the flipside of the kinda stuff atheists have to deal with all the time - whether or not the believers intend harm. It is very frustrating that “believers” act as tho they ought to be able to express their views in any number of ways and forums, and don’t expect any criticism for their expressions of belief. To the contrary, the generally act as tho their beliefs and expressions entitle them to some greater respect or something. While an atheist who expresses his views is considered misguided, immoral, or worse. Hell, probably just a short step away from those christian-baby-eating Jews! :wink:

Think it kinda odd that you would consider other beliefs “moronic” yet seem confused that others might see yours the same way.

One of my few friends at work is ULTRA-orthodox Jewish. Of course he wouldn’t call himself that. Instead, he considers himself simply a Jew (and would not consider you to be one.) That kind of a believer. But I love that we can openly discuss any aspect of his belief or my disbelief. From out discussions I have learned more about Jewish history, practices, etc than I could have from any amount of reading. Still think his beliefs are batshit insane, tho. But doesn’t keep him from being a good guy. Also, neither of us is the other’s boss, and neither of us has expressed any discomfort with our discussions.

Good luck.

8

I don’t think evangelism of any stripe is “refreshing”, sorry. I don’t care if she thinks my practice is moronic, as long as they don’t get in my face about it. I think we should be striving for respect on all sides, not “hey, look, atheists are becoming abraisive assholes too! whoooo!” You think Jews don’t get targeted by evangelist Christians? A lot? Especially atheist Jews. Yay, we’re being hassled by both religious believers and non-religious non-believers! How refreshing! :rolleyes:

9

First of all, why is your boss able to see your Facebook? I would highly, highly recommend against mixing those two. I never understand why anyone would let their coworkers or especially their bosses see any of their online presence that they can control.

Secondly, you simply have to flat out say once, “I do not like discussing this at work,” and then never, ever discuss it. She asks you why you have bacon in your sandwich? Shrug, smile, and say, “I like bacon. Doesn’t everyone?”

Never ever let your conversations devolve around religion. If she pushes, you are perfectly within your rights to say, politely, with a smile, but clearly, “I don’t particularly feel like discussing religion. Hey, did you see the game last night?” Or whatever.

I have been picked on plenty about being Hindu and eating beef and still going to temple and am an old hat at gently evading these questions.

I hate this shit by the way: “What’s Sim…I can’t even pronounce that.” It’s like people don’t realize how rude they are being when they make like your culture/whatever is so alien they couldn’t even give it a try. The right way to say it, if you must, is “I’m sorry, I don’t think I’d be able to pronounce that.” Grr.

10

Yeah, unfriend her immediately. You need to keep work and personal life separate.

It does seem as if she’s rather mocking of your beliefs, questioning why you’re taking a day off, that sort of thing. I would keep from mentioning your beliefs at work from now on. You want to take Sept 28 off? Why? Because you want a nice long weekend. Period.

If she brings it up again, then quietly say, “I thought we talked about this already.” If she continues, start documenting. This quirk of hers may develop into something nasty.

11

Yes, this is the crap non-believers deal with every day and it IS refreshing to see the shoe on the other foot … for about a second. Otherwise this is ordinary, everyday, rudeness. Your boss should not be talking about religion no matter which side any of you takes.

As Anaamika and others have said: “I do not like discussing religion at work.”

12

Exactly–don’t give her a good reason to bring it up at all. I never bring up my religion at work and won’t encourage others to talk more about theirs either. Frankly I don’t want to know those details about colleagues; if I happen to learn it outside of work if we become friendly, I would never bring it up at work.

Of course I have stick up my ass about a lot of things at work! :smack:

13

you set a boundary of “not in the workplace” - i don’t think its a stretch to imagine that most people wouldn’t consider facebook crossing said boundary, so you either need to re-establish the boundary or suck it up.

14

Bringing up religion at work just seems so alien to me. I can’t even imagine it happening. The closest I’ve seen is the couple of times my boss asked “You mean you don’t believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago by a supreme being?” (And he was being sarcastic.)

15

I want to sympathize, but I cannot too much. Having been the target of that kind of thing from fundies, I have a lot less respect and sympathy when religious people complain about the same thing. My attitude is “Now you know how we feel”. At least what your boss believes is scientifically valid. I’d rather the pushy be right than wrong, even if they are being pushy. Quite frankly, I think some of her questions are valid and your answers dodgy.

16

You have crystallized the posts so far quite well and rendered a fair example of the hypocrisy that exists here.

The OP’s boss is witnessing to her for God’s sake! (pun intended) There is nothing “scientifically valid” to her atheism. Science is silent on the question of God.

Had their roles been reversed (including the boss/subordinate roles) we’d have 30 posts so far fully apoplectic on the inappropriateness of her boss’s witnessing, not to mention the potential liability that the company faces for her actions.

17

Evanglical Anythings are annoying.

You need to draw a line.

18

. Only in the sense that it is silent on the question of fairies. There’s no rational reason to even suspect that either exists. The “scientifically valid” position on both is that they don’t exist, because that’s the “scientifically valid” position on anything that has no evidence for it and violates the laws of physics.

And we’d have posts calling atheists intolerant bigots, and pretending that religion is something that deserves to be considered seriously, and so on. And we’d probably have posts like yours, talking about the SDMB’s “bias” against those poor, persecuted believers.

19

That would really only make sense if the OP herself were guilty of witnessing to others. She’s not.

Anyway, being “right” doesn’t excuse you for being rude.

20

Not only that, she belongs to a tradition that specifically does not proselyte and has come under tremendous pressure from other religions for centuries. Little bit of a pile-on, don’t you think?