Hey, you two. We get your points. Both of them. And depending on which side one is standing, they are both valid. imho, ymmv, ianact, yada, yada, etc…
Now, let’s move on from the time issue to some of the other ideas expressed in the OP and early thread posts. Like getting along with co-workers, bosses, and those in your realm of authority. Even the difficult ones. 
You also missed that I mentioned I don’t punch a clock. I haven’t for a score of years. Nor do my subordinates or co-workers. I consider a 8.5 hour workday, with actually taking 30 minutes to get lunch, a luxury that rarely comes my way. I get paid the same if I start at 7:30, 8:30 or 9:30; I get rated on my ability to produce and deliver whatever project I’m on in a timely manner. The professionalism I show to my clients, subordinates, co-workers and bosses I expect to be shown back. And that means that one is consistently to the morning meetings on time, with the key word being consistently. Not always, as there are a million things that can go wrong with a commute - I know, most have happened to me. Most common are annoying 10-15 minute delays. I can count on one of those weekly, but I cannot predict what day. What I can do is give myself the extra 15 minutes to grab breakfast near the office so that when my coworkers expect me to chair a 9:00am meeting (daily), I’m almost never late. On the other hand, if I have someone who shows up consistently (as in once a week) 10-15 minutes late, they need to re-evaluate their commute.
When I’m on the road, I’m usually no more than a couple of minutes from the office by foot. There, if I know I need to be in at 9:00, I can show up at 8:58 (coffee in hand, of course) consistently. Less things to go wrong with the commute. I don’t need to build slack into my schedule.
Now I don’t know the OP; I don’t know her situation and I don’t know her coworkers. I don’t know the boss. At face value, it sounds like an isolated incident and a bitchy coworker who has the boss’ ear. Nothing a little workplace violence couldn’t solve. Put the coworkers head on a pike next to your workstation, and I bet no one else will make problems.
If this seems a little disjointed, it is because it took over 90 minutes to write. Sorry about that
Obviously your situation is different. There are plenty of jobs and plenty of bosses that don’t require stop watch-style timekeeping. Even when I punched a clock back in the day, no one’s spleen was going to burst if someone punched in a minute or two late. It wasn’t like we were train conductors or open heart surgeons. Of course, you’re supposed to start working at the designated start time. But the building wouldn’t implode if you were delayed in some way.
Hey…I’m as annoyed with chronic tardiness as the next guy. The OP, however, was lumped into a group she didn’t belong to and had a peer telling her what to do. That blows and she needs to go to the boss with it to get the rules laid out first hand. If the boss agrees with the nosey co-worker that she has to come in a 1/2 hour early without pay, her boss blows, too.
I used to do so. For the first year I worked there, I was a volunteer. They offered me a staff position because they were so impressed with my dedication.
Considering my paycheck is mostly a symbolic gesture, it really isn’t necessary. Besides, I don’t think an employer can legally issue a paycheck below minimum wage unless you’re in a tipped position.
The only time they’ve ever asked me for is the fifteen minute opening time before I start work every day. Otherwise, coming in uncompensated is totally my decision. I’m under no pressure or obligation to do so, other than my personal feelings on cooperation and teamwork.
The employer’s respnsibility is to treat their employees with respect and to be part of the team themselves. However, if an employer fails in that responsibility, it does not excuse me from fulfilling my responsibilities.
There is no magic number. It’s dependant on what is necessary to make the workplace run smoothly.
When my husband first started working at the prison, his secretary hated him. She had applied for the position he was given, and deeply resented some “smart-ass college boy” with no experience “stealing” it from under her nose.
Hubby realized that her resentment could lead to problems down the road, so one morning, he came in early and did all of her filing for her. (His arrival had created extra work for her intitially.)
She came in and found him seated on the floor, sorting paperwork into its proper files. She was astonished that he would bother helping her with such a menial task, and after that, she started seeing him in a whole new light.*
Hubby is on salary, so in doing this for his secretary, he “gave” the state free time, but in doing so, managed to solve a personal conflict which had made the work environment run less effeciently.
Come now, don’t be dramatic. Of course things don’t always run smoothly. It’s not a perfect world and we’re all human beings with the accompanying flaws.
When the shit hits the proverbial fan, we all pitch in to fix it. Some help more than others, but I’m not going to use others’ inaction as an excuse for my own.
We had one employee at the museum that I’ll call “Judy.” Judy technically fulfilled her job duties-- she arrived on time and would do any task assigned to her (albeit with many complaints.) But unless she was ordered to do something, she sits behind her desk doing nothing. Tasks which need done surround her, and she impassively watches as others work around her. We have tried to get her to pitch in. No amount of hinting worked, nor did having our team leader flatly tell her that she needed to start showing some initiative.
None of us had to complain about the situation. Our bosses noticed her inactivity. They, at first, tried the same thing our team leader did: they gave suggestions of things she could do if she found herself doing nothing, little tasks like wiping the cases and other daily chores. Again, it didn’t work. She would obey if directly ordered to do a task, but then would resume her seat, even though she plainly saw other things that needed done.
About a month ago, Judy complained to me that she had noticed her hours steadily decreasing. Now, she’s only working a day or so a week, only when no one else can work that day. She’s made snide comments about favoritism which only make me shake my head in disbelief. She honestly doesn’t see that we’ve earned what status we have.
You’d never see Judy coming in to help others with a project. She simply wasn’t part of the team. But I won’t use her laziness as an exuce for my own: “Oh, well, Judy isn’t doing anything. Why should I have to do it?” It simply goes against everything I believe.
*She’s actually the one who introduced Hubby and I and set up our first blind date.
What I’m wondering is how come the building’s non-implosion status is a sufficient standard for you, while I’m a mental case for suggesting that, for certain jobs, a few minutes of reporting early wouldn’t kill you?
The funny thing is that I’m very active in trying to get my fellow professors (at a private university) unionized, and our big problem is that the anti-union people are suggesting exactly the sort of nightmare scenario you’re presenting, while I’m assuring them that no one could possibly behave in a such a selfish, counter-productive, clock-punching manner as you’re suggesting you think is only your due. Is it a wonder that most people are opposed to unionizing? I tell them “This is for protection against gross abuses of our basic contract–all we want is to ensure that people get paid as the contract says, and their benefits are spelled out and assured, and that everything gets negotiated openly, but no one’s talking about enforcing a strict 8-hour workday, with clock-punching and mandated worktimes.” And they don’t believe me.
Aside from the fifteen minutes your boss steals from you every day, this scenario really isn’t germane to the thread. It’s a little over seven days’ pay per year if you work full time. They don’t give you vacation, benefits, or a week’s worth of EARNED pay. Sounds like you haven’t quite shifted from VOLUNTEER to EMPLOYEE in your mind. If you like being taken advantage of, that’s your business. But that doesn’t mean the rest of us are bad employees when we don’t put up with it.
Well, for one, I never said it was a standard for me. I said that if a person is occasionally late, the Earth will continue turning on its axis. Don’t put words in my mouth.
As an employer, would it kill you to pay people who show up early at your behest?
There is nothing counter-productive about showing up to work on time. I know it’s tearing you up inside, but the contract is being fulfilled. You want to change the contract, go ahead. But until then, or until the employee is actually late, you have nothing to bitch about.
There is nothing selfish about expecting to be paid for the time I put in. It’s called compensation.
If you want people to be “paid as the contract says they should”, stop asking them to come in early without pay. Very simple.
Sometimes the best way to make peace is to surrender the point. Isolate the co-worker. Say you’re very sorry about being late, and that you appreciate the reminder (or whatever). Offer to have you both talk to her supervisor about her getting early because of you. Be VERY contrite, and be prepared to listen sympathetically to her complaints of getting up early/whatever because of her.
People like to build up imaginary enemies in their mind to blame for their hardships, and you happen to be her imaginary enemy. When she has a chance to see that you’re nothing like that punching dummy she’s built up she’ll most likely make peace with you. Yes, you have to swallow some pride, but pride’s usually a bad thing to have anyway.
I’ve often found that the “tail between the legs” approach makes a lot of peace, but in the corporate world, it might come back to you; but as a student cashier, it’s the very best way to go IMHO.
Okay, but I’m specifying that the job description, as specified in the initial interview, does place a premium on promptness. (If you don’t think such relatively low-paying jobs exist, try starting a thread on “My professor is usually late to class” and see what responses you get.) Once that’s clear, and it is, it’s simply unacceptable, and when I’m dealing with an employee breezing in to teach a minute before the class is scheduled, that’s a problem. Sorry you can’t see it as a matter of fairness for everyone involved, just the worker. Ifr I get a sincere "Sorry, it won;‘t happen again’ after a teacher starts the class late, I may cut some slack, but if I get some “Hey, the Earth will continue to rotate” guff, that person is gone.
If I worked for you and you ever dared to ask me such an obnoxious, condescending question as that, you wouldn’t have to worry about firing me; I’d quit.
And I’d be utterly unastonished to find that an employee who had, previous to that conversation, always exhibited a good work ethic wrt promptness (having never been late to work a single day up to that point), would find themselves less inclined to give a crap about showing up on time to work for a boss who would treat them with such disrespect. And before you even think about going there – I do NOT advocate that behavior, I’m simply stating that I would be as unastonished at observing that change in attitude as you would be in seeing that person unemployed as a result.
Jackassery often begets jackassery. Treat your employees like children, you’ll often find them behaving like one.
If the teacher isn’t late, she isn’t late. It’s as simple as that. If she breezes in and begins teaching, she’s fulfilled her contract, has inconvenienced no one, and is available to her students as scheduled. If you’re paying these people by the hour, pay them the extra 1/2 hour to come in early. Why is that so hard for a manager to grasp??? If you’re not being up front with the work hours (and paying accordingly) you are the one who’s not doing an adequate job. I can’t understand why you’re arguing this point.
I have to point out here that if you are a hourly wage earner working without pay at your job, even if it is voluntary because you love your job, is a violation of the Fair Wages Standard Act (in the US anyway.) You have to be paid overtime if you work over 40 hours a week for your employer. Your employer could get a fine of up to $11,000.00 or $1,100.00 per violation.
Lissa, you should talk to your employer to see if there is any way you can become an exempt employee. Otherwise, the extra time you put in could result in the some expensive results for your employer. I know that YOU would not report them but maybe that underachiever who is down to a shift a week might decide to do so.
What this thread boils down to ultimately people’s preferences. As a wage slave working for K-Mart, I punched the clock most days 2 or 3 minutes early… or late. I almost always clocked out late, because I’m one of those people who stays until the job is done. I know I have a tendency to be late; therefore I have no problem staying an extra 5 or 10 minutes. My manager knew that and expressed his thanks for that. Never said anything about clocking in 3 minutes late.
Now, if my 2 or 3 minutes affects another person getting off work, who needs to pick up kids, or just wants to get off at exactly 4 pm, I can empathize with that person and I’ll do my damnedest (sp?) to be there so you can live life as you choose at that time. When I taught, our students were lined up for class at 7:25 exactly and were expected to be in instruction by 7:30. Any minute after that was robbing them of their instructional time - which I took quite seriously, considering virtually all of the students were performing below grade level. I may have been late without getting word out about it twice in two years.
I’ve only received glowing letters of rec, never been fired from a job, etc. but if being on time or early every day without fail is your expectation, well, I’m not the employee for you. And I don’t mean sautering in 10 minutes late. If I’m teaching class or leading a section, I am ready at 10 after the hour and I start then (we call it Harvard time). Thankfully for me I have chosen a career path where no one looks over my shoulder to see if I’m clocking in at 8:30:00 or earlier. But I’m also that guy who will meet with a student for an extra ten minutes and do my best to help him or her feel successful and make your institution a better place for that person. Fair trade off, if you ask me.
But as others have noted, it really is about the fact that you work on a staff and not everyone feels the same way. If I’m late for a meeting I fully expect people to start as they planned to, and I’ll just have to catch up on my own. I’ll apologize and make amends if I’m disruptive in the process, but that’s who I am. I’m a guy who usually is a minute or two late. I knew someone who claimed that this behavior is a form of controlling behavior… maybe he was right. But no more controlling than the person who purposely harumphs when the second hand hits 12.
I’m definitely more Type B than Type A and I’ve adapted quite a bit to Type A behavior because it’s reinforced and supported in the field I work in, but I appreciate a relaxing of the straitjacket every now and then. Shit happens. Traffic springs up, funeral processions take up the one road to Cambridge… so I say deal. If someone is consistently late and it affects the morale of the staff because people have to stay late, there’s a conversation that needs to take place and perhaps a firing if they can’t pull it together. Personally, if the OP was under my supervision, if she came in and expressed contrititon, gave a quick explanation of what went down, and got to work, I’d leave it alone. If it became a pattern, then you have a conversation.
The co-worker sounds like something of an ass. I worked in a bookstore with someone who assumed that if you didn’t work at the store year-round that you were a college student. Well, guess what? I’m a full-time teacher with a degree who works in the summer to make a little extra. Even if I was a college student, I would think you would need to know me a little before you give me your sage advice which I didn’t ask for and so on. The co-worker sounds a little like this woman I worked with, so I can understand the OP’s ire. I do agree, though, it might be best and easiest to be contrite if you are indeed late and inconvenienced others, regardless of the reason why. If the lecture makes the co-worker feel better and move forward in life, I can grant him or her that… once or twice. After that, don’t let me catch you one second late or trying to leave one second early.
What part of “after a teacher starts the class late” is difficult for you?
You’re the one who wants to have pre-emptive “conversations” with people who haven’t showed up late yet. “Aren’t you cutting it a little close?” You’re the one with a problem with “an employee breezing in to teach a minute before the class is scheduled.” And you’re the one who has yet to concede the point that being asked to show up early to ease YOUR mind requires compensation.
An overbearing manager with a stop-watch will get no respect from me.
So you don’t want to be warned, and you don’t want to be fired without warning. So what do you want, a certain number of latenesses before you get shitcanned? I can do that. My number is two or three.
But I have to get the paperwork started after one.
Kalhoun and pseudotriton ruber ruber, you’ve both made your points and counterpoints well known concerning this topic-why don’t you move on and let others speak their piece?
I can do that, too.