The ONLY safe way to screw/unscrew a valve from a pipe is to grip the pipe upstream of the valve with one pipe wrench and turn the valve body with another wrench.
You need to ensure that *all *the torque you apply to the valve body is captured by your other wrench and that *none *of it is transmitted into twisting the pipe. You pull on one wrench one way and simultaneously pull equally hard on the other wrench the other way.
To do that you need to have access to the first couple inches of pipe below the bottom of the threads. Which in your installation is inside the wall. So you must cut into the wall to access that area before you put any torque on the valve body.
If you don’t do that and just torque on the valve body without supporting the pipe one of two bad things will probably happen:
You may twist the pipe into a kinked and cracked mess inside the wall. Your next upstream shutoff is probably at the whole house supply.
If the next upstream connection is threaded, you may partly unthread it instead. Which will create a leak inside the wall. This kind of installation is atypical, but not unheard of.
Overall, for your level of expertise and desire for an adequate vice excellent fix, probably smartest to quit while you’re only a little behind and insert a garden hose shutoff (i.e. 1/4 turn ball-valve type) downstream of the existing hose bib connectors. Grease them so you can get them apart later. When eventually those hoses need to be replaced you don’t want to find out they’re frozen onto your new shutoffs. I might consider using plastic rather than brass shutoffs to facilitate this. Since the water isn’t going to be drunk you’re not concerned about chemical safety.
It’s also useful to exercise them every few months. I create recurring tasks on my phone for crap like this and about once a month it tells me I have some silly 5-minute chore like this to do. The sum of these recurrent preventative maintenance items is small and the headaches avoided are large.
I only first saw this post today & I started to write a reply, but it was to posts that were weeks old and out of date.
[spoiler] What I would have said had I seen it back then:
We don’t know how sound the pipe is; all we really know is that it is under water pressure and has been for a while. Taking a wrench to it will only write you a scene in your own production of “The Three Stooges Visit Mr. Blandings Dream House”.
Generically, I’d recommend vinegar (I think apple vinegar works best), time, and patience. If you are impatient, use a sponge. Gently.
PS- Re: torch: Heat speeds up oxidation. Depending on the water pressure and the condition of the pipe and the type of pipe, well… have you ever see someone lighting a cigarette squirted in the face with a garden hose?
Would you really like to…?
[/spoiler]
The thread was best answered by this response:
This is the Cheapest/easiest solution… and if you put the money you’d pay a plumber in the bank for 20 years less the price of the garden hose valves, the price of the plumbers visit in 2037 should be offset by the interest nicely.
From your OP, sounds like this screwing in and unscrewing out is strictly theoretical … you’d had a wrench on it and it won’t budge … you’ve vetoed the “tried and true” method of heating it up with a little butane torch (not a big cutting torch, just a small one you can pick up at the hardware store for ten bucks) …
This is what we call in the trade as a “can of worms” … there’s many things you can do that will be ruinous … like no water for the entire house until you get a plumber out there to fix things … twist a little too much on the wrench and you’ll be looking at a $1,000 bill at the end of the project … seriously, things can go to shit here in a real big hurry …
Couple of garden hose valves and you’re done in 15 minutes …
Try to unscrew that valve might take days and still be unsuccessful … or worst, ruin the whole thing … then you’ll be hauling 5-gallon buckets of water from your neighbor’s house to flush your toilet …
ETA: There’s a lesson here for everybody … there’s a few things in a house where we just don’t want to cut corners … pay the big bucks for top quality … this washing machine valves and bathtub/shower valves … it’s just an insane amount of expensive work to replace these items … “buy the best, you’ll never be disappointed”
I have a propane torch but I have no experience using it on plumbing. As you might be able to see from the pix the valves are in a recessed plastic box. I’m concerned about doing some sort of damage that I can’t even foresee.
Sounds like you’re wanting an excuse to remodel the whole upstairs … this might just be the thing to get the SO to go along with you … it’s double the money back when you go to sell … plus interest …
“Everybody carries a third mortgage these days.” – Dr Peter Venkman
This is a trend I see in residential plumbing; creative valves on the washing machine hot and cold water supply. I hate it.
When we bought this house, a washer and dryer (from the previous owners) was installed, so the valves seemed to be OK. They didn’t leak and the washer worked fine. When we moved in, we found the valves didn’t work. They had just capped them (apparently, with the water off). I had to turn the water off for the entire house, connect the hoses to the washer, then turn the water back on.
The “valves” was this one-piece combo valve where a lever would shut off both. Problem was, there was no lever. Well, it worked. for a while. I knew I had to replace it, but I figured I had a bit of time. I guess I waited too long; I came home one day and found it leaking. Copper pipes. I decided to just eat it and called a plumber.
He looked at it and said that he’d seen this before. He recommended I just replace them with bib valves (similar to an outside garden hose valve), but designed for vertical position instead of horizontal. Total cost, $150. He did cut a hole in the wall below the valves to gain access to the pipes that he said I should probably patch (I haven’t, yet. It’s behind the washing machine and you cant see it).
I was pissed at the time about paying the money, but it’s been decades since I had sweated copper joints and now there are valves there that can be serviced. The washers can be replaced, the packing nut can be tightened and/or packing replaced. Even the seats can be replaced. Since they spend all their time in the open position, I suspect the biggest potential problem is that if I close then open them, they may leak at the packing when opened. That’s easy to fix, though, just a bit of tightening on the packing nut. Why the builder couldn’t have used them when they built the house, I don’t know.
I would go with this option. The only problem is in a few years, 2 to 30, depending on your city water you will not be able to turn these valves off. But it will be just a matter of turning off building water. Replace secondary valve with new valve. Turn building water back on and you are ready to go.
Your other choice is open wall remove old valve set up. Replace. Then close up wall. If you do replace the valves do not go cheap on the new valves, and never solder a valve onto a copper pipe. That makes replacing valve a problem. I either solder an copper to pipe adapter on or use feral fitting valve.
Really? I dressed up as a “plumber with a saws-all” for Halloween a couple times back in the 90’s … real poplar actually … scared more than a few homeowners in the neighborhood …
Note: You can slip a pipe over the end of a pipe wrench to give it more leverage. I’ve used a 5 foot pipe on the end of a pipe wrench and still had to use all my might to break the pipe free! Also have someone else hammer on the joint while you are applying pressure.
If it is copper or plastic pipe, forgetaboutit! Saw the pipe down lower and replace the section of pipe along with the valve.
And you may need to replace the pipe anyway. There probably is buildup inside the pipes. If you do replace the pipes, use 3/4 or 1". Then that will leave room for build-up to form and water to flow!
I’ve read all the replies. You can both fix it, and solve future problems:
Citric Acid. Purchase a 2-4 pound bag on Amazon. $15.00 bucks for the 4 pound bag.
Add water to your washer, hot. Add 3 cups of citric acid. Let it sit at least overnight after filling, but not running a cycle. Then, run it out on a full cycle. Repeat 2 or 3 times. Your pipes, fittings, and basket will be brand new clean. It this doesn’t break the calcium corrosion on the pipe, swab the area with citric acid and water. Let sit for a full day. It will work.
IANAP but the pictures look like ball valves in a bronze fixture mounted in a galvanized box.
If that’s the case then the actual ball valves are stainless steel sitting in a nylon seat. The stem seal on these would be an O ring and I don’t think they can be adjusted like a packing seal. A plumber can chime in if they’re replaceable.
If the valves are not leaking but you can’t shut them off then adding a QUALITY inline ball valve is a legitimate option that allows you to shut off the water. Don’t use cheap plastic ones but use the metal one shown up thread.
I would do this rather than attempt to replace the valve body because then you risk damaging it beyond repair. Now you’re stuck ripping up the wall and soldering in new valves. It’s not the end of the world if that happens and you can do the repair yourself but that means pulling the washer out, cutting into the wall and soldering in new valves. You’d think somone would make a wall box that is 2 feet tall with an access door but NOOOOOOOO. If I were installing them I’d cut a 2 foot hole and put a thin metal plate over the exposed soldering joint and use those long shaft outdoor water facet valves. BAM, replaced in 30 minutes while watching a football game on TV.
If you go this route stay away from the single control set up. If you can’t be bothered to turn off 2 valves instead of one when going on vacation then you deserve the extra leak points those things have. Note the valve in my link is in the wrong box. The access point to the handle seals is on the left but the space needed to remove it (where the drain is) is on the right. There is no way to remove this piece to replace the seals.
I added a set of brass hose shut-off valves as suggested upthread as a quick fix. Here is a pic of the result. I am having a new washer delivered today so I did all this after pulling the old one out.
The second pic is a close-up of one valve. You can see that the nut is rather thin, and is probably 1"–it’s bigger than my 7/8" crescent wrench, which is the biggest one I have. There’s not enough space to work with an adjustable wrench and still have space to grip the valve itself. So I just don’t have the right tools to do this.
Now in twenty years, when the calcium gets ground up in the ball valve … just spin those new valve off … soak them in citric acid or vinegar or limeaway and they’ll last you another twenty years …
