How to get into a university in ....?

Factual Questions
21

Puerto Rico:

You try to get good grades during your junior high (grades 7,8, and 9) and high school years (10, 11, and 12). In high school, whenever you feel like it, you take what is called the College Board Examinations. These are prepared by the same company that does the SATs and the AP exams, but are different and geared towards Puertorrican students, mostly. That means the Spanish section is very hard compared to a Spanish SAT, the English section is easier than the SAT, and the math…well, since we are not allowed to use calculators, it is basically up to simple algebra and geometry. It is a whole-day exam, because different universities use different parts. The first part is a basic exam that supposedly shows if you learned all that you were supposed to learn in high school. The other part is like a placement exam. You can take the exams in September, January-February, or June.

Different universities in Puerto Rico use both your GPA and your CBE scores to determine if they accept you or not. I only applied to the public university, so here’s my account:

Around September of your senior year, you fill out and application to the school, listing your three choices of major(yes, you have to declare a major). Once admitted, though, you can change majors. The trick is that if you know your total IGS (I don’t know what the initials stand for, will talk about it later) is not high enough to get into one major(each major shows its minimum IGS), you can enter the university using other major with a lower score, and then transfer to the intended major.

If your score in the first part of the CBE was more than 1300(out of 2000), your GPA is at least 3.0, and you have at least the minimum IGS required, you enter by early admission. It is nonbinding, you can apply to other schools and get accepted(I did). This is only to let you know early and start the paperwork for registration, courses, etc. early.

If you do not enter by early admission, the schools will let you know if you are accepted by your first or second or third choice by March. Architecture and some of the humanities majors are the exception, you have 3 ways of entering that school:

  1. High enough IGS
  2. Remarkable portfolio
  3. Interview with the admissions people

IGS:

IGS is some sort of number they come up based in your GPA and your CBE score. Each major has a different number, usually the “easiest” majors have the lowest scores. The highest IGS is the one for computer engineering, with an IGS of 351. The IGS for animal sciences is 275. If your IGS is at least that, or higher, you are guaranteed entry to the major of your choice. My IGS was about 360, my intended major was animal sciences. My family was not very happy with that major (ie if you have such a high score, why choose a major with such a low IGS?).

Other private schools look at your GPA and CBE scores, but I do not know how they compute those. Of course, most private schools lag behind the public school in prestige, they accept candidates that with the IGS they had wouldn’t enter their majors. The above mentioned computer engineering, and all the engineering majors are examples of this. One friend of mine didn’t have an IGS high enough for civil engineering, so he went to a private university which accepted him (and his money).

Other things (sorry for the long post!) :eek: :

We also have our own AP exams, made by the same company, different standards. Usually for use if you are already accepted in the public university system. In each high school, all the teachers of the math, Spanish, and English academic areas get together and decide which students will take those AP exams for free. It has a lot to do with your grade in those subjects, not your knowledge, and it is basically at whim. I got B’s in Spanish many times, even though all the teachers and students knew I know my Spanish very well…I did not get to sit in that exam for free. In math, I was already taking Calculus II at the state university, but nooo, by the whim of the professors, I was not selected to sit thru the math AP exam for free. I only took the English exam free.

My parents payed for the other two tests, and I sat thru them at another (later) date in another school. I passed all the 3 exams with 5. The English exam is still a bit easier than the SAT, but harder than the CBE. The Spanish exam is tough, but I noticed that apparently the exam is made by non-native speakers of Spanish. Those large run-on sentences!!! Those syntax errors!!! Math is hard, especially the form of math exam I had chosen.

If you get 5 or 4 in an exam, you are exempted to take first year college Spanish and English (we have to take 1-2 years of them). If you have that score in the math exam, you start directly with calculus I.

In the CBE examinations, if your math score is higher than some number, you start with one-semester pre calculus. If higher than another, you start with calculus. If less than both, but higher than others, you start with first-semester calculus. If your math score is basically low, you start with a pre-pre calculus.

Any questions?

22

Ah. I never knew some of the famous US colleges were private schools. That would explain the exacting entry systems, I guess. Private universities are very uncommon down here. (Four public universities in my city and only one private. Funnily enough, there’s a (possibly unfair) negative perception of students at this uni: ie, that they weren’t good enough for the public system and had to buy their way into a quasi-uni.)

23

Narrad, that is what happens in Puerto Rico. Many private universities accept students that were denied entrance to the public system. To be fair, there are some areas were the private universities are as good or better than the public system, it just depends on were you live and what do you plan to study.

24

I knew I wouldn’t be the first Australian to make it to this thread! :wink:

I think they also take special circumstances (like prolonged illness) into account. There was a minor kerfuffle in Victoria when the University of Melbourne allegedly created more spaces in a course for the son of an Olympic official. I’m not quite sure how that one panned out though …

25

Thats cos the DID pay their way to get… that is, if your reffering to Bond and if your referring to Medicine/Law :slight_smile:

The 4 years thing was a typo, yes most students do 3 years. As with the honours thing, the OFFER it to you if you have above a distinction average guarenteed and provisionally with a credit average and then you CHOOSE to accept or not. I am guessing there are not TOO many people who want to do honours and do not get the marks, generally its the other way around.

What subject you do detemines how much your raw score is marked up/down.

Also, only about 1/2 of the course take you purely on ENTER. I would imagine that some subjects would are about other factors and some subjects dont even look at your ENTER.

As for honours not being equivilant to a masters. It was to my understanding that all that differed between the two was the name on the paper. Honours students do masters classes and masters students do honours classes. Apart from some specialised masters like MBA, a honours is a pre req to a PHD just like a masters

26

Narrad writes:

> I never knew some of the famous US colleges were private
> schools.

Probably most of the U.S. universities that you’ve heard of (for academic reasons) are private. For instance, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins, and MIT are private. These are all places with good undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools. Some public universities with good undergraduate, graduate, and professional are (University of California at) Berkeley, University of Michigan, and University of North Carolina. At the better state universities, things are sometimes academically mixed. Frequently the undergraduates are all over the place academically, with some as good as any student at a top private college, while other undergraduates are just O.K. graduates from that state’s high schools. The university may have a couple of graduate departments though that are rated in the top five in the world, and they will have the best grad students from around the world.

Some of what’s been written in this thread is snide exaggeration. For instance, Dweezil wrote:

> [bitter]
> BAH! Here’s how to get into a prestigious American College:
>
> 1) Have a rich mummy and daddy.
> and/or
> 2) have an attractive minority status.
>
> [/bitter]

Yeah, some students get into prestigious colleges this way, but not nearly that many. Didn’t people notice that this is General Questions, not IMHO or the BBQ Pit? What point are you trying to make by wildly exaggerating? Are you interested in conveying facts or getting your bitterness off your chest? We’re supposed to be fighting ignorance here, not emitting primal screams.

27

The Norwegian system is similar to this, at least to the first part. If you graduate from high school with an academic major, or with a trade/vocational major and some additional courses, you have what’s called studiekompetanse. Technically, that means you’re eligible to study at any school of higher education, including the general studies portion of any of the four universities. But particular programs within those schools can be “open”, which means you only have to sign up, or “closed”, which means you must apply and be accepted or rejected, primarily on the basis of grades (but e.g. job experience can also give you points towards acceptance). The more popular a course is, the more likely it is to be closed, of course. In practice though universities generally have to turn down some applicants to avoid overcrowding, and certain courses, like engineering, law, and medicine, are closed to all but those with the highest points.

Local colleges (høgskoler) are generally easier to get into, but offer only 1-, 2- oe 3-year courses, as opposed to the 4- and 5-year courses at the universities.

The only help you might get from a rich mommy and daddy is a year or two at a private high school to re-take your exams and try to improve your grades. There’s no tuition at universities or colleges, though you’re responsible for most of your living expenses which, especially in Oslo, can be brutal.

28

Wow, lots o’ answers. Thanks. I had been wondering about this for a while.

So we got answers from the U.S., Quebec, Australia, Japan, Puerto Rico, Norway.
Anyone else from Europe? How about Great Britain specifically? Do
Cambridge or Oxford want well-rounded individuals or just good grades?
How about the rest of Asia? Similar to Japan or something else?

**Tamerlane[\b] mentioned something that some of the U.S. state
colleges choose their students just on test scores and
high school grades. Is that common or do high school students
usually expect that they’ll have to be ‘well-rounded’ to get into
anything except a community college?

'Cos now I have this mental image of college entrance requirements
turning Americans into renaissance men/women compared to the rest of us dorks. Playing several instruments, writing poetry, editing the school paper, excelling in sports and all that. :slight_smile: Is it usual for people to go ‘I wouldn’t bother doing this otherwise, but it’ll look good on a college application.’?

And one more thing about the ‘getting into a university’ part:
Didn’t see anyone mention entrance exams. Are those just a Finnish
thing? Like I said, in Finland you get accepted to study a specific
subject. So if you want to study law, you’ll have to read (basic) law
books and go take the entrance exam based on those books. You can get
into some subjects just on your high school grades, but usually you’ll
have to take the exam. And for the most popular subjects, having good
grades from high school helps but not much. For instance, to get
into to study Medicine at the Univ. of Helsinki, which is probably the
most prestigious program here, it takes 54 out of 72 points on the
entrance exam to get in no matter what your high school grades
etc. were. Having the best possible grades in the relevant high school
subjects lowers this only to 46 points, so not that much help.
On the other hand, it’s always possible to get into any program by
acing the entrance exam, as long as you graduated from high school
with the required courses.

Nobody who answered already didn’t seem to mention anything like
this. Anyone? **Tsubaki[\b], did Japan have entrance exams in this
sense? A separate exam from the high school final exams? Or did you mean that those with the best high school grades or final exams get into the best schools?

29

GCU Arbitrary asks:

> Is it usual for people to go ‘I wouldn’t bother doing this
> otherwise, but it’ll look good on a college application.’?

I don’t know how usual it is, but there are super-ambitious students in the U.S. who do try to accumulate a lot of activities on their records so that it will look good on their college applications. It’s hard for me to tell how common this is. It’s the sort of thing that you will see mentioned in horror stories of the college application process, but I can’t tell if it’s a common thing or a rare thing.

In answer to your other question, being a “well-rounded student” is more relevant to applying to top private colleges than to applying to state universities, even moderately selective ones.

I don’t know of any university or college in the U.S. that has its own entrance examination.

30

In the UK, there is basically a points-based system for entry to universities, with in-demand universities able to tack on additional specific requirements.

Disclaimer: I went to university from 1993 to 1997, and things have changed since then.

English and Welsh education prior to university

English and Welsh school pupils are required to undertake a range of GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) exams. Following this, those wishing to attend university are required to complete two years of further education to complete A-Level courses. Students can choose the subjects to study, and most choose three courses.

Digression: In the early 1990s, the government wanted to increase the number of students with university degrees, and allowed former higher education colleges (known as ‘polytechnics’) to offer degree courses and call themselves universities. When I applied to university, I was allowed to select courses at five universities and eight polytechnics by their regulatory bodies. Since the reorganisation, students are - I believe - allowed to apply to eight universities through a single regulatory body, UCAS.

University applications

Students complete a form during A-Levels listing the eight universities and courses that they would like to attend, ranked in preference order. Based on the collated results, and on predicted exam scores, the universities set their requirements. Since three A-Levels is the ‘norm’, universities generally set their minimum entry requirements using a points system based on students having taken three A-Levels.

Each university can set its own requirements. Traditional, popular, highly-regarded universities – e.g. Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, St Andrews, Durham, Bristol and some of the London colleges – can be very specific, knowing they will have a large demand. For example, Oxford and Cambridge require separate admittance exams to be taken. For particularly popular courses, such as International Relations at St Andrews, or Veterinary Science at Edinburgh, the universities often set specific targets – “you must achieve an A in maths, an A in a science subject and a B in one other subject”.

Conditional offers of acceptance

Less established and less popular universities (mostly the former polytechnics) attempt to entice students through highly specialised courses – golf management, for example – and by setting more generalised requirements: “you must achieve three C grades”. Some express this as a points score, e.g. a total of 18 points (with the A-Level grades given a points score each).

The universities decide which students to give these conditional offers to based on a huge number of factors. Many seem political: when I attended Edinburgh, there was enormous pressure to reduce the percentage of places offered to non-Scottish students. Oxford and Cambridge are constantly being ‘exposed’ as turning down students from the north of England, or less well-off families (although these stories aren’t always fair to the universities). Since universities get to see all of your preferred choices, they may turn down students listing them as a ‘backup’ choice. I was told that Oxford and Cambridge do this: there’s no point listing one in second place as they will turn you down flat.

Unconditional offers (i.e. regardless of your final exam scores) are possible, but I’ve never known anyone who was given one.

Clearing

It gets more complicated. Since these offers are made prior to students completing their A-Levels, failure to achieve the required grades leads to a messy situation where the the student does not have a place at one or both of their chosen universities, and the university will miss out on their fees and government funding by having an empty place.

The result is clearing, which occurs once exam results are known nationally. Newspapers publish a list of universities with places available on courses and their revised entry requirements. It becomes a free-for-all, with students who did better than expected trying to change to get into a more prestigious university, and those who failed trying to get into another university with lower requirements.

And the rest

Once the dust settles, the problem is money. I was lucky enough to finish in 1997, the year (IIRC) that the government ended the previous system of local government-funded grants to university attendees. This involved means-testing of parental income, with the shortfall in fees paid by your local authority. The system has since switched to students being required to pay their own fees in full, and from a grant-based system to a loan-based system. Most students now leave university thousands or tens of thousands of pounds in debt, a situation exacerbated as university is regarded as a full-time occupation in the UK with little availability of evening or weekend classes for those working.

The Scottish entry system is a mystery to me, but presumably follows similar lines. Scottish students undertake ‘Highers’ rather than A-Levels, and because these are one-year courses they take an additional year at university. Scottish university degrees are thus often four years in duration rather than three. On the other hand, I’ve never worked out why certain subjects at Scottish universities are labelled ‘Masters’ degrees when they are still undergraduate degrees.

31

That’s the case at the older Scottish universities, namely St. Andrews, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh, just because it tradionally was the case. To alter that now would mean changing they way they do things merely to conform to either the English/Welsh nomenclature, OR that of the new universities.

32

Well, it’d also have the advantage of being consistent. While I’m sure most employers know that a Masters from those four universities is the equivalent of a Bachelor degree elsewhere, I’m also sure some don’t. Besides, it’s not even consistent within those universities – I have a MA in Politics where one of my friends who studied at the same time has a BA in Marketing.

33

Well, different schools have different policies, obviously, but I can offer an example of admissions policy that is probably somewhat representative of the importance of extracurricular activities. The University of Michigan is probably one of the very top public universities in the US; recently, it’s admissions policy has come under scrutiny because they give preference to minority students, and so exactly how they run their admissions system is a current events topic. UM gives each potential students a number of “points” based on grades, tests, location, extracurriculars, etc. A hundred points, and you’re in; 90 or less and you’re out; in between and you’re wait-listed. An explanation for the system can be found here, with a handy point chart here. As you can see, top grades at a top high school will get you 98 points; adding top test scores will add another 12. The extracurriculars will net you at best 10. Quite enough to bump a lot of people from wait-listed to accepted, but basically as important as a 0.5 GPA, or the difference between a lousy and decent test score, or just living in Michigan.

Anyway, like I said, different places do it differently, but I’ll hazard a guess that most public universities will accept students with really good grades and test scores, but little extracurricular activity, while poor grades will shoot you down no matter how much other stuff you do.

34

Yeah , but I don’t want St. Andrews to be expected to change merely in order to be consistent with the Polytechnic University of Much-Muddling-in-the-Marsh.

(Is there a tongue partly in cheek smiley? Must check)
:slight_smile:

35

Concerning France :
First, during the 3 last years of high school, pupils choose a speciality. Depending on the speciality, the programms are widely different. For instance, a student choosing A1 “litterature and philosophy” will be taught maths for perhaps 2h/week while a student choosing C “mathematics and physics” will be taught them for 9 hours/week (the programms are the same in all the schools, they’re defined at a national level). So, a pupil who intend to become an engineer is likely to pick “mathematics and technology” and another who intend to become an economist is likely to pick “economics and social sciences”.
Then you have to succeed at the “Baccalaureat” which is the high school final exam. It’s not organized at the school level, but a national level. So, all French pupils who had the same specialization in high school will have exactly the same exams, the same essays to write, etc… at exactly the same moment. The bacalaureat is sometimes called “the Great Mass”. The thing is one week long or so. Once you get your “baccalaureat”, you’re qualified for tertiary studies.
Then, there are three sorts of tertiary schools, which work differently :
1)Professional schools which prepare you to a qualified job and issue a diploma called something like “superior technician diploma”. The studies are 2 or 3 years long. They’re usually public schools. They select their students based on the relevance of their high school speciality, their results at the baccalaureat and eventually, their results during high school, but also the place where they live.

2)Regular universities. They’re always public. All students who got their baccalaureat enter their wishes (universities/discipline of choice) in a database and then the universities which are in high demand are able to make their pick. Based mostly on the same criteria than above (specialization, results at the baccalaureat,…). The students who aren’t accepted in their university of choice have to attend to another university, which would usually be the closest to the place they live which provides a teaching in the discipline the student is interested in.

Note that everybody who got his baccalaureat has the right to enter university and study whatever he’s interested in. Which means that :

-Universities providing a discipline in high demand can be overcrowed, with obvious consequences on the quality of teaching.

-No university is very selective. Some universities have a good reputation, and can nitpick a little because they’re are in high demand, but not that much. Despite its reputation in foreign countries, it’s not particulary difficult to become a student at the Sorbonne, for instance

-The selection actually happens afterward. A lot of students give up during the first two years or fail to get the first university grade (DEUG) at the end of them. In some disciplines, half of the students give up during the first year. This is a major issue, since it’s a waste of time and ressources for everybody. Only after the first two years and this first grade the university you attend to begins to make a difference, students will begin to apply to other universities depending on the speciality they’re interested in and the universities will begin to look closely at whom is applying. The grades you got and their quality (from “barely got the grade” to “exceptionnal student”) will be the basis for this selection.

3)The “Grandes Ecoles” (Great schools). The equivalent of the famous and selective universities in other countries aren’t universities in France. They’re these “great schools”, which can be extremely selective. They don’t provide general training, but are dedicaced to train highly skilled professionnals. A little number of them do train future scientists (Ecole Normale Superieure, for instance), but most train engineers, business people, civil servants…Most are publics (and in some of them the students are even paid to attend) but some are private (in business, in particular). The way teaching is organized in these grandes ecoles is much more similar to a high school than to an university. The selection is done in the following way :

-People who got their baccalaureat will apply to “classes preparatoires” (preparatory classes??), which are two or three years long very intensive theorical studies in the relevant fields. These are usually provided by high schools. Contrarily to the high school or the universities, you’ve no right to enter in these “classes preparatoires”. They can admit whoever they want. Practically, it means you’ve to had excellent results at the “Baccalaureat” and during high school. Anyway, you’ve better to be bright and work hard or you’ll be out quickly.

-Each “grande ecole” organize a competitive exam for pupils who have atended the “classes preparatoires” (In some cases, there is actually no such requirment, but you’ve basically no chance if you didn’t attend them) If a school admits, say 120 people each year, the 120 students who got the best results at this competitive exam will be accepted. It’s as simple as that.
To sum up, entering a french university basically means nothing. Being a first year student at the Sorbonne in meaningless. A very successfull student will either :

-Have graduated from a university well known in his theorical field of study (for instance in high energy physics at Orsay), in which case the selection has been done during his studies, not at the beginning of them, and was dependant on the quality of his grades.

-Have graduated from a “grande ecole” in his professionnal field of study, in which case the selection has been done by a competitive exam following 2 years of hard work in a “classe preparatoire”.
(Being a good athlete won’t help you in any way, since there’s no “sport culture” in french universities, and having a well-off father won’t, either, since they’re are funded by the state. Associations of former students are pretty much unheard of in universities, but are very important in “grande ecoles”. They will help in your career, but won’t help your son, to apply to the said “grandes ecoles”, though, since admission is based on a competitive exam. Finally, since there’s no “affirmative action” here, being member of a minority won’t help. Keeping datas about somebody’s ethnicity is even forbidden)

36

I forgot to point out that the university grades issued in France are valid all over the country. Which explains why a student who had for instance his bachelor’s degree in some university can easily apply to another one (because it has a better reputation in his field, for example) to prepare his master’s degree. It’s at this point that the selection based on grade quality (in particular “mentions” in french, like say, “good” “excellent” “with congratulations of the board”, etc…) enters in the picture, as opposed to when the kid enter university, as I said before.

37

I want to remind people that there is a difference between how “public” and “Private” are used inn the UK vs. the United States. When we here in the states say “Public” we mean the institution is supported by public tax dollars and the state/county/city has some oversight over the college or university.

There is a bit of of misinformation in this thread, however. It is not true that the entering class at all top schools is “first” filled with legacies, development cases (people with rich daddies) and athletes before regular candidates are admitted.

Many schools which are selective are working very hard to bring in an interesting and diverse class. That doesn’t mean only ethnic diversity. Great grades and high test scores do not guarantee admission at any top school. Alas, many students feel they are entitled to admission, and it’s a bitter pill to swallow when they find that sometimes colleges think the kid with so-so grades who formed his own skateboarding company at 15 is more desirable than they are even with a stellar academic record. I confess that as a former admissions professional I got a bit tired of students second-guessing admissions choices. They always assume something funny is going on, without remembering that they don’t know what another student’s application looked like, what was said during his interview, or what the committee was thinking when they chose to accept him.

38

There’s an interesting article from Newsweek on the admissions process at my alma mater, the University of Chicago. It’s a few years old, and the images no longer seem to be linked, but it’s one of the few inside looks I’ve seen at the actual admissions process. I’m not sure if the school comes off as good or bad, but the process is truly intriguing.

39

I really don’t like what was said about the Quebec school system. I get the impression that Hari never went to CEGEP, nor went through any of the Quebec academic system. Correct me if I’m wrong, but DAMN, if that was your experience, where the hell did you go to school?!?!?!

In Quebec, you graduate High School after grade 11, having taken every year combinations of the basic subjects of math, english, french, religion (or “moral ed”), phys ed, history/geography, some sort of science (chem, physics, biology - depending on the year/your choice) and various electives of art/music/drama/home ec, yadda yadda yadda (depends very much on the school and school board).

After graduation, you go to college, called CEGEP (College d’Education General et Professionel), and have a choice of a 3 year “technical” (professional) diploma, or a 2 year “general” diploma. The techincal porograms vary, but include police technology, Business Administration, nursing, Computer Information Systems, Special Care Counselling, mechanical/manufacturing techincians, forestry, etc. These allow you to “enter the real job world” immediately after graduation. It is a college degree.

The general programs are the same at every CEGEP, although there is likely variation in elective courses offered. The programs are Sciences, Social Science, Creative Arts, Liberal Arts (did I forget one?). These give you a broad education within these subjects. I can really only speak for the Sciences one, seeing as thats the one I know, but other programs are similar. In Sciences, there are certain core classes (Calculus 1,2 and Linear Algebra, General Chem 1,2, Biology 1, 3 Physics courses, as well as three Humanities, four English, two French -this is different in the French cegeps, though - three Phys Ed and two “non-science complementary” courses). Then, as well as those, the Science programs give you a choice to do more “pure and applied” (more math and physics) or a “health” profile, which is more bio and organic chem.

Then, when you graduate from CEGEP, you apply to universities individually. Their requirements vary somewhat, but are largely grades-based, and somewhat based on extra-currics or other things. AFAIK, the only times you may have to write an essay or go to an interview is for specialised degrees, like law, medecine, veterinary, etc. The usual bachelors is 3 years, WITHOUT a general first year (that was covered in CEGEP), although some, like engineering, are 4 years now for a variety of reasons.

You cannot get into a university without a Cegep degree, unless there are special circumstances (like mature students).

Cegep were the best 2 years of my life, academically. Because it is run by the ministry of education, and it is required for uni, it isn’t expensive, and gives you the chance to take a load of general courses to decide what you want to do (say, you take sciences, hate it, and switch to social. Its not such a huge hassle). The cegep I went to had a fee of 130$ a semester, which really isn’t much (compare to 2000$ a semester at uni). Most students turn 18 (legal) while in cegep, and get the chance to booze for a couple of years before dedicating a lot of money to wasting their time at uni. Cegep is run a lot like a university (ie profs dont care if you cut class), and not much like high school, so its an opportunity to get used to a more serious academic life.

Cegep was WORTH IT. I had fantastic teachers, one of which is actually responsible for setting me on the career path I am on, and I thank him for it. I am at an Ontario university, where things are done differently here, and I see a lot of people wasting their time in first year because they are not ready for uni life. With the elimination of OAC, we will start getting first year students who are 16 or 17 years old - far too young to know what they want in life!

But yes, you can pick and choose your major as you like, once youre at university, and change as often as you;d like, too.

And I think that’s enough for now. :slight_smile:

40

How odd, they seem to be under the impression that they do…