How to reduce rape by half?

My college included this in their orientation. Granted, it included gems like “what if both people are drunk” being answered by the instructor, who had obviously never been a drunk and horny 18-year-old male, telling us that a man who is impaired can’t get an erection. But for the most part I think it was useful, not that I think I would have been raping people without it.

Yeah, this is victim blaming, and the results seem anomalous. I would put “won’t call it rape because they’ve just been taught it’s their fault if they get raped” way above actually fixing anything.

And if it were to be shown, I’d question if it would scale. The rapists currently have other choices. But if everyone does some defense technique, then they won’t.

Then there’s just the ethical problems here in teaching the potential victims but effectively leaving the rapists off the hook. The rapists haven’t actually been stopped. There is no way you can do anything like this without also going after the rapists.

Also, I do note that a contradiction in adaher’s post: one time he says that these are people who are going to rape anyways, and thus there is no reason to try and teach them. But then he hypothesizes that one reason this works is that it makes “no” so clear that people know they’re being a rapist. These are contradictory.

Same thing going in in the USA.

It’s actually a reduction in rape incidences in the 1st year of university. The study states

The full study can be found here -

I’d certainly favor a parallel program for men . . . and then a study similar to the one in the OP that measures the success of the program.

Right? I mean, it would be unsupportable to insist on continuing that program if it had no measurable effect on incidence of rapes, yes?
Similarly, if it did, that would be strong evidence to continue it.


Ujamaa Africa has had some success in educating young men regarding their behavior towards young women and claims to have reduced incidents in Nairobi, Kenya.

Another link about the program

This PDF looks like a meta-analysis of various other programs targeting men and boys.

So, in fact, there are people targeting boys and men and such programs have achieved some success. I, for one, would like to see these boys’ programs promoted as heavily as the girls’ programs.

Before I got my driver’s license, I was taught “defensive driving.” Much of defensive driving is predicated on the understanding that you cannot control the unsafe actions of others but that you can limit their potential danger to yourself by driving in a particular manner.

Is defensive driving yet another form of victim blaming?

I did a little kung fu in high school. Much of what I learned was how to defend myself from attack. Was my sifu engaged in victim blaming?

The answer to the above questions is ‘obviously not.’

Understanding that the world can be a shitty place and teaching people how to navigate it safely is not victim blaming. We should obviously be putting college guys through programs designed to lower incidents of rape, but unless you have a belief that enacting these programs will immediately reduce rapes to 0%, there is value in also teaching defensive skills to college girls.

A good self defense course isn’t going to be about just rape but keeping yourself safe in all sorts of ways, as well as ways to extract yourselves from bad situations.

Even so, rape prevention courses vary, and some do lean towards victim blaming.

Agreed. These separate proposed programs are not in conflict with each other and not mutually exclusive. Why not DO ALL WE CAN to reduce and prevent the incidence of rape?

I’m find with actual useful advice, which is mostly “don’t get shit faced drunk”. What I’m not fine with is the “typical” advice that is either useless and implicit victim blaming (“don’t be alone with people you don’t trust; don’t wear revealing clothing”) or significantly life-limiting (don’t walk alone after dark or in deserted places; always have a buddy in social situations; don’t have more than two drinks; don’t go places if you don’t have independent transportation home; don’t travel with men; don’t socialize with men without other women present.)

It’s not the concept of advice that I object to; it’s the utter uselessness of much of it. It’s like a defensive driving course that tells you never to drive within 24 hours of drinking, after dark, or on the highway, and to avoid red cars or those with the letter “L” in the name.

Victim blaming is an after the fact occurrence. Teaching people how to be make being a victim less likely is an entirely different thing.

Teaching women not to go to secluded places with men they just met and don’t intend to have sex with isn’t victim blaming, it’s prevention.

Identity theft sites focus 99% on how to prevent identity theft. Is this victim blaming, or should websites focus more on how to teach identity thieves not to steal people’s identities?

As I wrote in my previous post, I support the idea of anti-rape classes for men. But there would still be a need for anti-rape classes for women as well. Even if the male classes reduce sex crimes by half, women are still going to have to face the remaining half.

Crime prevention is more effective if you give priority to working with the potential victims than the potential criminals because the victims have a much higher interest in preventing the crime.

So I can’t travel with a male co-worker I don’t know well if we are expected to share a rental car? I can’t work late with a male co-worker on a mutual project if the office will be deserted? I can’t sit up late on a patio at a party and talk to a guy about philosophy after everyone else has crashed? I can’t offer to give a guy a ride home when he clearly needs it–I have to be a bitch and be seen as a bitch?

Of course. These are suggestions to develop programs that will produce measurable results. It’s not like we’re trying to solve a serious problem by praying at it.

To address the OP instead of joining into the early start of Rape Week, it would be a good idea to implement programs like this. It would also be a good idea to implement other programs which address the contributing behavior to rape in men, school officials, law enforcement, and the justice system. Just because one such program does not solve all the problems doesn’t mean it should be ignored.

Could the fact that someone took this course be used against them in court?

Defense Attorney: “Is it a fact that you took a rape avoidance course?”
Rape Victim: “Yes”
Defense Attorney: “And did you do everything that was taught in that course?”

At my gym, I often see women leave at night in their workout clothes (sports bra and yoga pants), earbuds in, staring at their phone as they walk through the dim parking light. They are oblivious of their surroundings in a potentially dangerous environment. That doesn’t mean they are deserving or inviting being attacked, but it does mean that someone will have a much easier time of assaulting them. It seems it would be beneficial if there was some way to tell her to stay aware instead of isolating herself. Yes, the problem is the bad people who attack others, but everyone should take steps to ensure they are not making themselves an easy target.

10 Rape Prevention Tips, According To Sarah Silverman

  1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

  2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

  3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

  4. If you are in an elevator and a woman gets in, don’t rape her.

  5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is not to rape her.

  6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.

  7. Remember, people go to the laundry room to do their laundry. Do not attempt to molest someone who is alone in a laundry room.

  8. Use the buddy system! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you at all times.

  9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find you are about to rape someone, blow the whistle until someone comes to stop you.

  10. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When you are asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign you do not plan to rape her.

Is there any evidence that women in that situation are more likely to get raped? I’m serious. I understand the gut response that that is a bad idea, but violent stranger rape is such a small portion of the problem.

What I want is for society to take sexual violence as seriously as non-sexual violence. If 10% of freshmen on a campus were getting mugged, we might tell them to be careful, but we’d also recognize that there was a crime spree going on and no one would want to send their kids there. It would be reason for radical, immediate action. If a campus had 10% of the cars broken into in a year, or 10% of freshmen had their laptops stolen, that’d be a sign of a complete breakdown of law and order. But somehow 10% of freshmen girls getting raped is an unfortunate but reasonable figure.

One more thing: you clearly think those women are being unwise. Where does it stop being unwise? Is it just the earbuds and the phone? If the woman was alert and paying attention, would you still think she was unwise for not changing into conservative clothes? If she changed into conservative clothes, would you still think she was unwise for going to the gym alone at a time that required her to walk to her car alone?