Women, Sexual Assault, and the Fear of Men

Continued from a conversation here.

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse]
The fact is that 1 out of 5 or so of all women will be sexually assaulted and that is staggering. More than half of them will be under the age of 30 and more than half will be victims of someone that they know very well. Another large portion by someone they know at least peripherally.

The odds of any one random woman being in danger of sexual assault by any one random, unknown male who nods politely in passing aren’t 1 in 5 - they are so low as to be practically irrelevant to the discussion.

There’s more than one conversation going here. The very real, very serious problem women face with regard to sexual assault, and another slant on the subject that rationalizes having a suspicion of any unknown male. The latter is not supported by reality. If it’s what someone needs to get through the day more power to them but it shouldn’t be considered necessary or even valid for everyone.
[/QUOTE]

Crazyhorse’ odds are consistent with the CDC National Intimate Partner and Domestic Violence survey, which finds that 40% of women nationwide report (on an anonymous survey) having been sexually assaulted in her lifetime, and 20% report having been raped. Half of those who report sexual assault experienced her first incident before the age of 18. Another large chunk of these rapes occur in domestic violence situations (at the agency where I work, about 40% of domestic violence incidents reported to us include sexual assault or rape.) Those are self-reported statistics and thus likely to be higher in reality, but they are probably as accurate as we are going to get. Those statistics include rapes and sexual assaults that were not reported to police. Only a small percentage of sexual assaults are perpetrated by strangers.

Cite.

I don’t think we have any great way of measuring how many men actually assault women, but it is probably quite small. The problem is that this small minority of men is prolific; abusers victimize multiple women.

[QUOTE=Slate]

A study published in 2002 by David Lisak and Paul Miller, for which they interviewed college men about their sexual histories, found that only about 6 percent of the men surveyed had attempted or successfully raped someone. While some of them only tried once, most of the rapists were repeat offenders, with each committing an average of 5.8 rapes apiece. The 6 percent of men who were rapists were generally violent men, as well. “The 120 rapists were responsible for 1,225 separate acts of interpersonal violence, including rape, battery, and child physical and sexual abuse,” the researchers write. A single rapist can leave a wake of victims, racking up the numbers rapidly, as the victim surveys are clearly showing.
[/QUOTE]

Cite.

Keep in mind those are college-age men, where sexual assault is rather prolific. The percentage of non-college-age rapists walking around on the streets is likely smaller. (A rapist is much more likely to rape a date or an aquaintance than a stranger on the street.)

Based on the statistics, I am essentially in agreement with Crazyhorse. I have great empathy for survivors, being one of them myself, but I can’t see how endorsing a general fear of strange men makes any rational sense, or is in any way fair to men. That does not mean men are absolved of responsibility for fighting against the culture that perpetuates violence against women any more than white people are absolved of the responsibility for dismantling racist power dynamics, but this is an element about the dominant narrative about sexual assault that I must reject. We need men as allies, not adversaries.

As a non-violent, non-rapist male, I appreciate your allegiance.

Seriously. I had no idea this whole culture existed until lately. I’ve never personally known any women who have been assaulted or raped. It blows my mind to find out how relatively common this is.

That you know of.

Yeah, it’s not like it really comes up in polite dinner conversation.

I’ve always known the stats, but it’s quite different (and heartening) to see this virtual explosion of women coming forward to talk about their assaults. It makes the whole thing more real and makes me feel a lot less alone. You can ignore a handful of women, but it’s a lot harder to ignore millions upon millions of women. I hope this level of awareness sticks.

Which is one reason that many have doubted how accurate the CDC report actually is When it first came out it 2010, it was like an Atom Bomb. However, now that people have had a look at the methodology, there are several doubts its veracity. Notably, it did not ask the persons whether they had been the victims of rape or sexual assault. Which is on its own not a bad thing, and is in fact, understandable. However, they asked them a set of questions (questions which were often imprecise*) and then the question takers decided on a subjective basis whether or not the person had been a victim of a crime.

For the United States, the best statistics that I could find are the 2012 Bureau of Justice statistics.

They still make sobering reading especially the fall in the last decade of reported sexual violence crimes; (which on its own has been a subject of much debate).
Crimes against women are underreported, but the best way to handle that is to get an accurate assessment of how often the occur. As is done for other crimes.

*Questions like “have you ever had sex while drunk”, “or when you did not want to” or “feel pressured”, all of which could indicate criminal actions or perfectly legitimate one, you need more information and they dod not ask the people surveyed for clarification.

I’d need to read a methodological analysis of the CDC study, but based on your description it doesn’t sound encouraging. (particularly troubling is the “subjective standards” part.)

I’m trying to parse this on my phone so bear with me… It looks like the BoJ statistics measure crimes within the last year vs. lifetime prevalence? How would this translate as a comparison with the CDC study? Is it possible to extrapolate lifetime prevalence from these numbers? I’m seeing charts showing a breakdown of crime proportion by type, but not anything reflecting an analysis of the percentage of the general population who experiences various crimes. Am I missing it?

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Sure. I get that.

Yeah, I am not going to randomly regale you with the time an ex boyfriend climbed in my window to try to convince me (while I was sleeping) to “give him another chance.” I might tell you about some obnoxious guy grabbing me intimately in a bar because he felt it was worth a shot, or something - maybe he thought I’d swoon or jump his bones? But I probably won’t mention it. Why would it come up unless it’s related to the topic? Random groping is really unfortunately common.

As far as sexual assault, these are the statistics I’ve heard:

95% of men will never sexually assault anyone in their lifetime
3-4% of men will have 1-2 sexual assault victims in their lives
1-2% of men will have multiple sexual assault victims

So when you add it up, those 1-2% of men make up the majority of sexual abusers. I forget the odds, maybe 60-80% of sexual assaults come from 1-2% of men. Those odds may not make sense, but if that 1-2% of men each abuse 10+ unique women, that works out to 10-20% of women being abused. If I am wrong, please correct me. Point being, just because 1/4+ of women are sexual abuse victims doesn’t mean that 1/4+ of men are sexual abusers. It is a small % of men who commit the majority of sex crimes.

I don’t blame women for being wary. They have no idea who that 1-2% of men are. But I can see why they are afraid of that 1 in 50 chance that they guy they interact with could be a serial sexual abuser.

College-age rapists go on to become post-college-age rapists; even if they stop raping, they are still men who raped. The age histogram of “guys who have raped someone in the last year” may* have a hump in college, but at some point the rapist teacher, priest, manager, parent… were college-age, and being out of college didn’t make them stop raping. It may even have made it easier for them to get access to their preferred targets.

  • May. I’m not sure it does.

Yes, of course they are still rapists, but the people who they have the highest likelihood of raping will not be strangers, but rather dates, acquaintances, coworkers, etc.

Age of the attackers and whether they are known to the victims are two different issues, though. I was addressing the age bit.

The number of women who have not been raped (or otherwise sexually assaulted) because they were able to extricate themselves from the situtation (maybe they talked it down, escaped, someone came in) never ceases to astonish me. Just, so many women have a story like that, the narrow escape.

Thank you. It is, in hindsight, maybe not that helpful to try to talk facts in a conversation largely about emotion and personal experiences.

If the goal is truly to understand the problem and look for ways to solve it it’s important to acknowledge the reality of the situation - which is plenty bad enough without making it about all men vs. all women.

To change our culture we need to put a lot more focus on the predators that are responsible for the large percentage of assaults, hopefully without winding up jaded and suspicious about everyone in the process.

Astonishing? Disheartening, perhaps, but I am hardly astonished.

Unfortunately, my gut feeling is that that first number is high. 95% of men have never copped a feel without permission, ever, in any way, even when they were 20 and horny and out drinking with their buddies?

It seems a big part of the issue is that the definition of sexual assault isn’t viewed as the same by every one. Once I was at a party with my sister. She drank to much, and fell asleep (yes, asleep, not passed out). I found her sleeping, with a guy (friend of a friend) leaning over her, about to kiss her. Was that sexual assault?

No, because I got him out of there (before I decided to beat him senseless with a text book). If he’d kissed her, or laid a hand on her at all? Hell yes, it would have been sexual assault. I’m willing to bet he wouldn’t have considered it to be.

As for women being afraid of so many men, because of a bad few percent. How many men to you think I have and will meet in my life? Easily several thousand. So if I go with your 5% (repeat + one timers), and assume I’ll meet 8000 men (that’s what, 100 a year?? That’s 400 men that I will meet who will assault someone. Or 5 a year. No thanks, I’ll stay wary.

The Spanish Penal Code would call it “attempted sexual assault”; that is, the crime didn’t get wrapped up because of your intervention, but intent and opportunity were there. Dunnow what would US, Canadian and other English-speaking criminal codes call it.

I don’t take it personally when women act antsy around me, put their hands a little close to the pepper spray, or hold their purse tighter(Sexual assault isn’t the only thing that makes the world dangerous for women).

While law enforcement should not profile, individuals absolutely should! Powerless people are under no obligation to prioritize treating people fairly over their own safety. If people are offended because they think they are being suspected because of their race or sex, tough shit.

Am I reading this thread wrong? People are minimizing what women said in the other thread? That’s what it looks like to me. The CDC has its figures on sexual assault as they define it. The unwelcome groping, touching, threats and other unwelcome activity aren’t reported and thus are* incalculable*. We’re not talking about one or two percent of men that are sexual predators.

1-2% are capable of rape, perhaps. 5-10% might be willing to go for an unwanted feel. 20-30% might not take no for an answer very well without getting really creepy. And probably 90% of us have been really, really inappropriate at one time or another.

So yeah, I don’t get offended if women get nervous around me. Men need to start behaving better. And besides, it’s not like we don’t make assumptions about women which are accurate more often than they should be.:slight_smile: