How to string along anti-pedophile cops without committing a crime or giving cause to arrest?

[even_sven]

I’m not sure why you have to ask this. A quick look at the Perverted Justice website shows they are looking for:

1. An acknowledgement that the chatter knows the chatee is a minor, preferably with a demonstration of understanding that what is happening could be illegal or “get me in trouble.”
2. A positive identification, ideally by phone, of the chatter. You don’t want to dinged by someone chatting on someone else’s profile.
3. A move towards concrete real-world plans for a sexual encounter.

[madmonk28]

Creepy, creepy OP.

[astro]

@Soliloquy

You’d find yourself flagged, at least in a locally accessible database, as a potential sex offender, I guarantee it. You’d get some bad press, too. And you may spend a night or two in jail, here in CA, based on the scenario you painted.

This pretty much, If you’re going to be messing around LEO officers they have ways to mess around with you. Even if charges are unproven, being investigated or tagged as a grown man who frequents young kid chat sites and strings the police along in wild goose chases isn’t going to do much for your social reputation.

If that doesn’t matter to you fine, but a lot of social interaction and invitation doors will be closed to you if your peers think you’re an incipient kiddie molester, or if even if you’re not, if they think you like to hang with that crowd.

You’re not a fantasy super villain. Dance puppets dance is a dangerous game to play with law enforcement types if you plan on leading a life where you live in one place for an extended period of time.

[kayaker]

I have a generally negative toward LEOs. That said, the ones trying to catch (even via entrapment type scenarios) pedos are doing something I will go out of my way to support.

Talk about drugs and my opinions swing 180 degrees.

[Dead_Cat]

@madmonk28

Creepy, creepy OP.

I agree, particularly given that he has also posted a thread about age of consent laws and what they should be. It just feels… wrong, to me.

ETA: of course, there could be an innocent explanation. But the timing seems unfortunate.

[Dead_Cat]

Too late to edit, I must offer my apologies for my previous post - the OP of this thread and the one I referenced are not the same, and though the OP in this thread has posted in the other one, there was nothing suspicious about those posts.

Nevertheless, I maintain that this is a strange question to ask.

[Full_Metal_Lotus]

Robert…

There are easy ways to get the same thrill…

Go into a library with a bullhorn duct taped to your mouth, but DON’T say anything… just sit there
Go into a old folks home, or a hospital and stand with your hand on the fire alarm… but DON’T pull it…
and here’s one your really should try… Go to a major US Airport with a fake bomb belt under your shirt!
Sure you may not be interfering with police trying to track and stop pedophiles, but you will be “messing with the man” in a way… it certainly smacks of the same type of creepy and antisocial behavoir, and has that same sad stench of the attention seeking loser.

[madmonk28]

@Dead_Cat

I agree, particularly given that he has also posted a thread about age of consent laws and what they should be. It just feels… wrong, to me.

ETA: of course, there could be an innocent explanation. But the timing seems unfortunate.

To me, it could be read as “how do I chat up 13 year olds without getting arrested?”

[Clothahump]

@Bearflag70

Yes. The defense will be just that. Therefore, the charge of knowingly interfering with police investigation won’t stick.

Until this thread on the Dope is brought up…

[Toucanna]

I’m in a weird mood today, so I’ll play along…

@robert_columbia

If one were inclined to want to fool around with anti-pedophile investigators…but intentionally stop just before the border where suspicious behavior ends and probable cause for an arrest begins.

I’ll address point #3 first:
3) Avoid giving the sting operation cop (if it turns out that it is actually a cop) Probable Cause to arrest you (even if you would be found Not Guilty in the end).

@even_sven

“Perverted Justice” [is] looking for:

1. An acknowledgement that the chatter knows the chatee is a minor,

Not a problem, as simply chatting with a minor isn’t a crime. However, be sure to read the Terms of Use of the chat room to make sure you’re not violating them by chatting there. The Man may not get you for inappropriate chatting, but T.M. could definitely let the public know you, An Adult Who Ought to Know Better, was chatting on an underage forum while using a fake name/profile/etc.

@even_sven

…preferably with a demonstration of understanding that what is happening could be illegal or “get me in trouble.”

Still not a problem, as it’s preferable that you demonstrate it, but you don’t have to, so you won’t. Ergo, no crime committed.

@even_sven

…2. A positive identification, ideally by phone, of the chatter. You don’t want to dinged by someone chatting on someone else’s profile.
3. A move towards concrete real-world plans for a sexual encounter.

This is where your session will end, as either of these acts will get you into trouble.

@Bearflag70

How many apparent minors are you going flirt with before you are satisfied you have actually wasted the time of a cop?

Good question. If you have to end the session before you ID yourself (or pretend to do so) and definitely do not meet with the “chattee”, you’ll never know if you messed with The Man or an actual kid. So if your intention is to waste a LEO’s time, how can you determine if you were successful?

@robert_columbia

…what would you need to do to:

1. Keep the cop interested in you. That is, you are piquing his or her interest enough so that the cop thinks that you are still an appealing target, even if you haven’t yet committed an overt offense yet.
   and
2. Avoid committing any criminal offense in the process.{snip}

Follow any of the scripts posted on PJ’s website for the initial contact, but transition your lustful statements to make them about how much you want to do some celebrity. Justin Bieber? Is he still making teeners swoon?

And since this is IMHO, here comes the unsolicited opinion:

@astro

{snip}If you’re going to be messing around LEO officers they have ways to mess around with you.

+1

If–and I do mean IF–you decide to try this, please please please let us know what happens. I really need a good laugh. (Will you be allowed to log on to the SDMB from jail?)

@ModernPrimate

…someone actually argued to me recently that if I slept with girls that were 25 years old or older, but I believed they were under 18, that that would be a terrible crime both ethically and legally. :rolleyes:

Show them an issue of Barely Legal!

[miss_elizabeth]

@ModernPrimate

Following on from the TCAP logic, someone actually argued to me recently that if I slept with girls that were 25 years old or older, but I believed they were under 18, that that would be a terrible crime both ethically and legally. :rolleyes:

Here’s a hypothetical:

Let’s say you work with a guy, we’ll call him Bob. And you really can’t fucking stand Bob. You think Bob is a real piece of shit, what’s more, you think the world would be a better place without Bob in it. And let’s say your other coworker, Leo, hears you muttering to yourself about this, and gets a little alarmed. So, Leo says, “Hey, what are you talking about? Are you thinking about killing Bob?” And you say, “Yeah, Leo, I am. I’d like to poison that motherfucker!” And Leo says, “Well, there’s rat poison under the counter in the break room.”

Leo is a little worried, so he dumps out the can of rat poison and refills the container with Splenda. And you go in there the next day, make some coffee, and dump a generous portion of what you think is rat poison into the cup. And you bring it to Bob, and Bob drinks it.

You tried to kill Bob. You attempted murder. The fact that the rat poison was switched to Splenda doesn’t alter the fact that your intent was to kill. And saying that isn’t “criminalizing thought”. Leo doesn’t have to wait until you get a hold of some real poison to call you an attempted murderer, and if Leo was a *real *LEO, it wouldn’t be entrapment, and (I’m pretty sure) you could be arrested.

And saying, “Well, I thought that Leo had probably switched the poison for Spenda,” isn’t an excuse either.

[AndyLee]

We used to do this when I was a teen ager. I got tired of being treated like a shop lifter, so my friends and I used to go to stores and walk around, we’d throw stuff under our coats and act nervous. Then we’d ditch the items and pretend that they were under our coat.

Of course we were always stopped by security and of course they never found anything. They were very good at seeing us steal the item but never seemed to catch on we were ditching it.

It was fun to do because we were teen agers and when your a teen ager the world is against you

[salinqmind]

I think it would take a great deal of thought and cleverness, not something done as a lark or to pass the time of day. One would have to be quite intelligent and quick-thinking to attempt this, to anticipate every response and be aware of exactly where to draw the line.

I don’t see any evidence this could work and furthermore would applaud the anti-pedo police throwing your ass in jail just for wasting their time, if nothing else. This idea is just despicable, in a lame sort of way.

[Little_Nemo]

@Bearflag70

Yes. The defense will be just that. Therefore, the charge of knowingly interfering with police investigation won’t stick.

As to the separate charge of flirting with a minor, or whatever that might be called … lewd conduct(?) … all the OP wants to do is go as far as he can before giving rise to probable cause for that crime. If there is no probable cause, I don’t know how this gets all the way to a jury trial.

Where’s the crime here? The biggest problem I see here is that the OP has no idea if he’s wasting his time with a cop or with a bored kid.

You’re right that the OP might beat an actual conviction for interference with a police investigation. And he won’t get charged with a statutory rape attempt.

But there’s also public opinion. The OP won’t be able to tell people he was knowingly screwing with the police. So the public perception will be he’s a pedophile who beat the charges on a technicality.

[ModernPrimate]

@miss_elizabeth

Here’s a hypothetical:

Let’s say you work with a guy, we’ll call him Bob. And you really can’t fucking stand Bob. You think Bob is a real piece of shit, what’s more, you think the world would be a better place without Bob in it. And let’s say your other coworker, Leo, hears you muttering to yourself about this, and gets a little alarmed. So, Leo says, “Hey, what are you talking about? Are you thinking about killing Bob?” And you say, “Yeah, Leo, I am. I’d like to poison that motherfucker!” And Leo says, “Well, there’s rat poison under the counter in the break room.”

Leo is a little worried, so he dumps out the can of rat poison and refills the container with Splenda. And you go in there the next day, make some coffee, and dump a generous portion of what you think is rat poison into the cup. And you bring it to Bob, and Bob drinks it.

You tried to kill Bob. You attempted murder. The fact that the rat poison was switched to Splenda doesn’t alter the fact that your intent was to kill. And saying that isn’t “criminalizing thought”. Leo doesn’t have to wait until you get a hold of some real poison to call you an attempted murderer, and if Leo was a *real *LEO, it wouldn’t be entrapment, and (I’m pretty sure) you could be arrested.

And saying, “Well, I thought that Leo had probably switched the poison for Spenda,” isn’t an excuse either.

Good point. I guess we have to take a lot of complex factors into account. I still say though that a lot of the people on TCAP were getting 2-5 years for bs… it seems that the different states vary greatly. Also… I had a thought watching it last night: maybe TCAP doesn’t mention if any of their sentence was suspended.

[hazynlazy]

This is a disturbing post. When law enforcement officers are on these sites, it’s to protect the young people in our society. Why would you want to impede on such security, even on just a theoretical level? You need to grow up.

[Little_Nemo]

@hazynlazy

This is a disturbing post. When law enforcement officers are on these sites, it’s to protect the young people in our society. Why would you want to impede on such security, even on just a theoretical level? You need to grow up.

Let’s face reality. When law enforcement officers are on these sites, the main motive is probably the police commissioner wants some publicity. The resources being used to set up online sting operations would be better spent fighting more basic crime. But cops walking beats doesn’t make the evening news.

[Rachellelogram]

@Little_Nemo

Let’s face reality. When law enforcement officers are on these sites, the main motive is probably the police commissioner wants some publicity. The resources being used to set up online sting operations would be better spent fighting more basic crime. But cops walking beats doesn’t make the evening news.

I think you’re way stretching it to say the commissioner is this cold. People aren’t exactly rational when it comes to weighing child sexual abuse against other crimes. Pedophilia is probably the most universally-reviled crime in the world. Because there are no winners–hell, even during prosecution of terrorism or treason, one side is cheering loudly for the criminal. But the pedophiles themselves are objects to be pitied if they can refrain from indulging their desires, or monsters if they can’t. The children are fucked up forever. No winners.

It’s pretty hard to argue against spending more resources on prosecution of pedophilia from a moral standpoint. I’d much rather have them busting pedos than casual marijuana users.

[kayaker]

@rachelellogram

I’d much rather have them busting pedos than casual marijuana users.

Atheistic Amen and a high five.

[Little_Nemo]

@rachelellogram

I think you’re way stretching it to say the commissioner is this cold.

It’s not a coldness per se. But it is a mindset. Nobody just walks in off the street and becomes a police commissioner. You get promoted up from assistant commissioner, captain, lieutenant, detective - and at every level there are other people who are eligible for the same promotions. Some of it’s objective but there’s always an element of “fitting in”. You’re promoted because you’re doing the kinds of things that get you noticed and the people above you like to see being done. So the people who rise to the top are the ones who have an instinct for doing what people want to see.