How to string along anti-pedophile cops without committing a crime or giving cause to arrest?

[VinylTurnip]

@madmonk28

Creepy, creepy OP.

Yeah, this seems to be a trend lately. Are we in an undeclared board war with NAMBLA or something?

[Bearflag70]

@VinylTurnip

Yeah, this seems to be a trend lately. Are we in an undeclared board war with NAMBLA or something?

It’s probably one of the few boards that can discuss the issues on the merits in a half-way rational manner without knee jerk brandishing of torches and pitchforks. It’s a good thing that this board is better able to dig deeper than the “ick factor” and get to the Straight Dope.

[Rachellelogram]

@kayaker

Atheistic Amen and a high five.

I like that term, atheistic amen. I might have to use that myself

@Little_Nemo

It’s not a coldness per se. But it is a mindset. Nobody just walks in off the street and becomes a police commissioner. You get promoted up from assistant commissioner, captain, lieutenant, detective - and at every level there are other people who are eligible for the same promotions. Some of it’s objective but there’s always an element of “fitting in”. You’re promoted because you’re doing the kinds of things that get you noticed and the people above you like to see being done. So the people who rise to the top are the ones who have an instinct for doing what people want to see.

I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong. But until we can read minds, it’s an unanswerable question, making it an unprovable philosophical exercise at best. There’s no way to separate the people who are doing what people want to see from those who are doing what they think is the “right thing” to do. There are interesting elements of the social contract in the question you posit, but really it’s all just philosophical since we can’t know for sure.

FWIW (which isn’t much), my suspicion is that it’s a bit of both for most, as it is for nearly anybody with political aspirations.

[Gary_Robson]

@Little_Nemo

Let’s face reality. When law enforcement officers are on these sites, the main motive is probably the police commissioner wants some publicity. The resources being used to set up online sting operations would be better spent fighting more basic crime. But cops walking beats doesn’t make the evening news.

I get the impression you’ve never talked to the people who participate in these stings. I have. The ones I’ve spoken to do it because they really, REALLY want to get the child molesters off the streets. There is something viscerally rewarding about doing that.

To me, there is also something quite creepy about wanting to interfere with their investigations…

[JThunder]

That’s right. People are trying to catch child molesters, taking them off the street before they can do any damage (or further damage)… and some folks want to actively interfere with these efforts???

The obvious question is… why?

[Little_Nemo]

[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:44, topic:599231”]

I get the impression you’ve never talked to the people who participate in these stings. I have. The ones I’ve spoken to do it because they really, REALLY want to get the child molesters off the streets. There is something viscerally rewarding about doing that.

To me, there is also something quite creepy about wanting to interfere with their investigations…
[/QUOTE]
And people in the Narcotics department really want to arrest drug users. Joe McCarthy was really passionate about finding Communists and Matthew Hopkins was really passionate about finding witches.

I’m not equating all of these things. I’m just pointing out that the passion people feel for a cause doesn’t necessarily reflect the value of the cause.

Even if you just look at the issue of child molestation, you can legitimately question the value of online sting operations. Ninety percent of the children who are molested are abused by somebody they know not some stranger on the internet. But it’s the ten percent who are strangers on the internet which scares the public, so a disproportionate amount of resources is devoted against them.

I do agree that there’s no justification for interfering with an investigation once it’s in progress. While it might not be the best decision, once it’s been made, it’s better for the program to succeed in catching somebody than to fail.

[hazynlazy]

@Little_Nemo

Let’s face reality. When law enforcement officers are on these sites, the main motive is probably the police commissioner wants some publicity. The resources being used to set up online sting operations would be better spent fighting more basic crime. But cops walking beats doesn’t make the evening news.

Regardless of how you think resources should be used, this is what’s being done. So why interfere? Your interefering won’t make them any less likely to use these tactics, because as you note, it’s only for publicity anyway. Honestly, if you don’t like these tactics, there are a million better ways to argue for change rather than interfering with a real operation that will help take a few creeps off the street.

Another thing to point out is sometimes in these operations, it is not law enforcement officers who are doing the actual typing but rather volunteers. For example, in To Catch a Predator, they used the volunteer help of Perverted Justice.

Arguing that it’s a waste of resources is NOT a reason to interfere. Nothing you have said has changed my opinion that the OP has posted a really creepy post.

[Little_Nemo]

@hazynlazy

Regardless of how you think resources should be used, this is what’s being done. So why interfere? Your interefering won’t make them any less likely to use these tactics, because as you note, it’s only for publicity anyway. Honestly, if you don’t like these tactics, there are a million better ways to argue for change rather than interfering with a real operation that will help take a few creeps off the street.

Arguing that it’s a waste of resources is NOT a reason to interfere. Nothing you have said has changed my opinion that the OP has posted a really creepy post.

Did you miss the part where I said pretty much the same thing as this?

[Toucanna]

@Little_Nemo

{snip}Ninety percent of the children who are molested are abused by somebody they know not some stranger on the internet. But it’s the ten percent who are strangers on the internet which scares the public, so a disproportionate amount of resources is devoted against them.{snip}

I think the logic behind the sting operations is that the potential perps who are trolling online for victims are also probably molesting a child they know. It is neither logistically possible nor legal to go door-to-door, interrogating people about whether they are molesting any of the children they know, so the sting operators throw out bait into a (quasi-)public area to see who bites. (I have no objection whatsoever to sting operations that smoke out and prosecute on-line child molesters. IMO, anyone who sends sexually explicit material to someone they fully believe is underage is a child molester.)

If someone wishes to entertain themselves by fantasizing about pulling a fast one over UC LEOs, hey, whatever helps them procrastinate to avoid homework/housework/office work is fine by me. When they cross the line into acting upon that fantasy, may the full weight and wrath of the law descend upon them. And if they think the folks who devise and run these sting operations haven’t factored in dealing with pesky smart-alecks who think they can blow smoke up a UC LEO’s colonic orifice, well, I want to be a fly on the wall when the S.A. finds out differently. I, too, have housework and errands I want to put off.