How to waste the Sunday of several Non-Commissioned Officers

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Look guys, I like to drink, but only to excess. I do have the sense to know not to drive after I have been drinking. I also know that if one of my friends is about to take the wheel after he has been drinking, it is my loyalty as a friend to stop him. You are told this every week. I know that you have been given the phone numbers of people you can call for a ride 24/7, no questions asked. You lucky bastards. When I was your age, I had to get myself home no matter what condition I was in. My car had to be in the driveway by curfew. Didn’t matter if I was drunk or high, my car had to be in the driveway. You don’t have that problem. You can get home any way you need to. Hell, I have left my car on a bar parking lot before so I could get the Soldier and his car back to his quarters for the night. I did, of course leave the keys with the Charge of Quarters with a reason why. I can look out for you if you do the right thing.

You two dumbasses couldn’t do that. You, SPC D, I have gotten you out of several situations before that could have caused you real problems. And you PFC M, I have told you in the past that I can help you if you let me know what you need. I gave you both my home phone number and I never wake up angry.

So instead, you both made me have to meet with the 1SG today, at 6am. Yeah, 6am and spend six hours of a Sunday with you both instead of people that I wanted to meet. What make you two so GodD**n special that you are allowed to make new friends, but I can’t?

Bottom line up front as your Commander is likely to say. You PFC M stated that the last thing you did before you got behind the wheel of someone else’s vehicle was to drink a beer. Doesn’t matter what your BAC was. I don’t care that the officer on the scene stated you were well below the legal limit, you were impaired. That is why we say, “Don’t drink and drive” instead of “Don’t drive drunk” Also, if you knew your buddy was driving drunk, WTF did you let him behind the wheel? When the truck you were driving rolled over because SPC D ran into you, I hope you thought for a minute that you may have f***ed up.

SPC D, you were just barely under the legal limit. At your age, at your level of driving experience, at your level of drinking experience, at the fact that this is the second time that you have been noted for driving while under the influence, WTF made you think that you could temp fate again? You do know that you could have killed one of your friends?

Oh, ok, you spent some time today picking up pine needles while we wrote your counseling statements. Wow, that really sucked. Think about this…One of you could have been in jail and one of you could have been dead. Sleep well over that one.

I don’t counsel you because I have to. I don’t get pissed at your actions because I am supposed to. I really do care about you both. I have told you SPC D that my Soldiers are my children because I can’t have any. But you don’t care, you would rather be in prison for vehicular manslaughter than let me help you. I already have one Soldier I was close to in prison. I could not handle having two.

BTW, SPC D, the last thing you said to me, about how long was I going to treat you like a “red headed step child” because of this, that hurt. I fought for your promotions, I’ve fought for your career. I come out looking stupid, because every time I back you, you F**k up. Seriously, you aren’t my Soldier anymore, but I still back you. And each time you get a leg up because of my support it is only so you have better aim to piss on me.

I put this in MPSIMS because I don’t really have the words to cuss enough to express my true feelings. Move it if needed.

SSG Schwartz

2

Dumbasses. Too bad you can’t divorce 'em. You could do them both a big favor, and prevent yourself from having a heart attack, by giving them both a big kick in the hindquarters, literally. Hope your Monday is better.

3

After I gathered the facts from PFC M, I literally wanted to kick him hard. I dismissed him and kicked my way out through the fire exit door. I was so angry that one of my Soldiers could do that. I had to leave for the interview of SPC D, who used to be my Soldier until I changed jobs. I really could not bear to hear how he had done something so dumb.

BTW, I do divorce Soldiers. Not in the sense that we have legal separation orders, but I will not recommend them for job related training. I will support their decision to get out before their contract expires. Some have felt that I am a good guy because I do this. No, it is because I don’t want you to pollute my Army.
The b***ch is that both of these guys are good Soldiers and I cannot divorce myself from that.

SSG Schwartz

4

So?

Yeah, it does. Who are you to tell a soldier that he can’t drink even small amounts of alcohol and drive?

Should they never drive anywhere where they can have a beer or two without calling you to come get them because you laid down the rules? As much as you want to fantasize that these are your children, they’re not.

We know, daddy.

How do you know? Did he fail any sort of sobriety test? Was he cited for drinking under the influence? I’m thinking you would have mentioned it if he had been.

We’re all told not to drink and drive. But we all know that really means don’t drive drunk- not never have any amount of alcohol and drive.

But you just said, "That is why we say, “Don’t drink and drive” instead of “Don’t drive drunk”. Didn’t you say that because he wasn’t actually drunk?

“Noted” for driving under the influence? Does this mean he was never actually cited for driving under the influence? If so, that’s probably because the law’s definition of being under the influence isn’t the same as yours, not because a cop felt like letting him slide.

Get a grip, man.

5

Looks like he failed the test of “Don’t let your dumbass buddy drive drunk.” He might not have been legally impaired himself, but he sure as hell displayed poor judgment.
What’s your bone in the matter, anyways?

6

It occurs to me that a senior officer has a moral duty to protect the health, safety and welfare of Soldiers under his charge.

Sgt Schwartz didn’t lay down the rules… the ARMY did. He’s just in charge of ensuring that his Soldiers follow them.

Do you have a problem with the Army running correctly?

Seems to me that you’re the one who needs to ‘get a grip’.

7

You’ve never served, have you? SSGs aren’t senior officer and the ‘moral duty’ you cite to treat soldiers (especially ones over 21 years old) like children doesn’t exist.

There is no rule in the Army that the last thing you do before before driving a vehicle can’t be driving a beer.

There’s something wrong with his thinking that these are his children, even to the point where one said, "how long are going to treat me like a “red headed step child”.

8

SSG Schwartz, Sorry to hear your time got wasted on this and we didn’t get a chance to meet you on Sunday. Doesn’t mean we can’t try to do it again sometime.

bstenger, these guys acted like children. They deserve to be treated as such. Things have changed a lot in the military in regards to attitudes concerning drinking and driving. It doesn’t take much anymore to have your career ruined - SSG Schwartz is right to be both concerned and disappointed in them. They know the rules and they didn’t follow them. It also sounds like one of the dumbasses was driving someone else’s vehicle and rolled it. Nice.

It also sucks to stick up for someone - for any reason - and then have them let you down.

9

Well, they may have, but I don’t think that’s apparent. They had some alcohol and drove. I don’t think that’s necessarily childlike irresponsible.

Unless the military has changed much more than I’m aware of, having some alcohol and driving isn’t against any rules. The officer did say that PFC M was “well below the legal limit”. Now, the OP says that they were impaired, but I’d still like to know how he came to that conclusion. I can’t see him not being charged with a DUI if he was found to be impaired.

Yeah, but that happens. Maybe take a turn too fast and you’re not used to driving vehicles high off the ground and you roll it- even if the last thing you did before hopping in wasn’t having a beer. Again, the officer did say that PFC M was “well below the legal limit”. This soldier is guilty of turning over a truck. Whoopdie doo? I can’t see a 1SG spending six hours on a Sunday with something like this.

I know it does. But sometimes shitty things happen to someone who didn’t really do anything wrong (or at least something as minor as being guilty of not being good at driving a truck) and deserve to have someone stick up for them again. “My soldier is guilty of being a lousy driver. What would you like to do about this 1SG?”

10

Well, this sentence:

Makes me think they were fcking around. And fcked up, big time. Maybe that booze made them think f*cking around on the road was a damn fine idea (you don’t have to blow a 0.08 to get giddy and stupid, especially if you’ve little experience with alcohol). With someone else’s vehicle, no less.

Someone needs to grow up there. This is the kind of stuff you see high-schoolers do.

11

SSG Schwartz, I’m so sorry that your Sunday was spent that way instead of doing something fun…(like meeting us!)

12

Units in the Army can have a zero-tolerance policy WRT alcohol and driving. You are familiar with a lawful order? If a Soldier feels that being told he can’t consume alcohol before driving, that is something he can go to IG about. If you have a beer or two and get home, and there is no consequences, we can’t do anything if we don’t find out about it. Once the police become involved, yes, we can do something about that, and are required to do so.

The situation was this. SPC D was doing burn outs in the parking lot of the barracks. When the Staff Duty NCO was conducting rounds of the barracks, he told SPC D that he should go inside and stay there for the night. At this time, the Staff Duty NCO smelled alcohol on the breath of SPC D. Staff Duty got on his motorcycle and drove back toward Headquarters. SPC D got in his car and proceeded to chase SPC D with his car. Staff Duty pulled over and SPC D stopped with him. When Staff Duty identified himself, became evasive about who he was and what unit he was with. When Staff Duty stated he was about to call the MP’s, SPC D identified himself and gave up his squad leader’s name and number. Staff Duty didn’t want to hurt the young Soldier’s career, so he advised the squad leader to handle it at the lowest level.
Well we f***ed up. Squad leader didn’t call me until the next night, I didn’t tell the 1SG until the following afternoon, and the Commander wasn’t informed until the day after that. There was alcohol, a motor vehicle, and reckless driving involved, but we did nothing because we had nothing to prove anything. So, it wasn’t just a lawman looking the other way. We had a Soldier’s self admission he was driving under the influence and two people who observed that.

SSG Schwartz

13

Beg your pardon. You’re right, I never served (outside of ROTC) but my Dad ws Navy and my son is a Marine currently stationed in Fallujiah.

The type of overseeing which Sgt Schwartz speaks of is quite the norm at Camp LeJeune (if you belive my son).

Schwartz says he’s their Commander. I don’t need any other proof to see that he’s their Senior Officer.

And there is much difference between “a couple of beers” and the shenanigans which Schwartz describes.

Have lingering issues with your service much?

14

It’s the norm for SSGs to oversee privates and even other NCOs, but they are not anyone’s senior officer, nor are they officers.

15

Sucks, Sugah.

16

Today in the Brit army the biggest killer of squaddies on Ops is R.T.A.s .
Its even bigger then then the death count by hostile action.
Admitedly most are caused by the sleep deprivation of the drivers but a dead soldier is a lost asset however he got fucked .

If you cant get a grip of yourself in a controlled enviroment then you have’nt got much chance when surrounded by the bad guys.

17

After reading some of these replies I have to weigh in on this myself.

Having retired from the Army a bit less than 2 years ago I have been through this sort of thing before too. Even if there was not a DUI issued it is still an “alcohol related incident” and in the Army that is about par with a DUI. When I was in we had a safety briefing every week at the close of business (I bet this is still the same) and among other seasonal safety related concerns there was always the don’t drink and drive spiel. That briefing will always stand as a lawful order in addition to I am sure a unit policy letter or two directed at drinking and driving. The Staff Judge Advocate office will back the safety briefing and unit policy every time.

Some of you are looking from the outside in and there is a lot of difference with regards to the military way of business and some Joe working for Target.

This reflects poorly on every level of leadership from the squad leader up through the Battalion Commander and they take it very serious when the blotter ends up on the Post Commanders desk as it does every morning and he starts asking questions. That rock gains a lot of speed on the way down hill.

It sounds like both of these soldiers have had a break or two and still they go out and roll the dice. Now one of them at least is expecting everything to go back to normal and brush this off as nothing. It does hurt when a soldier you have mentored turns around and kicks you in the balls like this. They know the rules and the expectations of them and they know the repercussions of failing to follow the rules.

And in this situation the Staff Duty NCO although not a commissioned officer is the CO’s designated representative and as such a directive given by him is to be taken as issued from the CO and will stand as such in a Military Justice proceeding.