If you don’t believe that humans have any sort of spiritual superiority over the other animals, or some sort of special purpose in this world, then are our lives any more valuable than that of other animals?
If you’re an atheist, or belong to a religion that doesn’t see humans as being anything special, just another part of nature, then do you see human life as being more valuable than non human animals? And if so, why?
And if the value of human life is the same as that of dogs, cats, squirrels, and so on, then, if you eat meat, and don’t mind wearing clothing made from animal skins, then would you have any objections to killing people for food and clothing, other than the “ick” factor?
I’m not trying to make a point or change peoples way of thinking, or anything like that, I’m just genuinely curious to see the replies this generates.
Don’t mind me but i think this would boil down to a debate on what makes a human, human. Bringing yet another cascade of religious debates…not that thats bad though
Yes. Humans have all sorts of extra capacities and feelings that animals dont: a depth of psychological expectation and social bonding that animals just don’t have. We have the power to HAVE purposes, unlike most animals.
Same thing.
I don’t eat meat: but then, I wouldn’t go around killing people if I did. See 1,2
In regards to the title of the thread? It’s worth about 6 million dollars, by some estimates.
Take the total cost of all lawsuits, lost business, bad publicity, etc from people getting killed by your products. Divide that by the total number of people killed and there’s your answer.
My life is pretty valuable to me and since I have to eat AND I have the technology to dominate other forms of life, I guess those animals lower down on the food chain are just SOL.
Human life is valuable in direct proportion to the amount if positive influence that human has or is likely to have on other humans or for humanity as a whole.
As an example I was watching a Biography channel program about Dr.Salk and it painted him as a bit monstrous. Well, he could have been a complete beast, but he would have still had a net value gain IMHO for what he did for humanity.
The problem with this is guessing potential. Someone could be capable of fathering/mothering someone of great potential, so do you guage that is any estimate of that person’s value? A statistician’s wet dream.
I personally say “no” because I’m lazy. Humanity has in and of itself no external value, and internally it seldom has much value as a whole. Individuals have value of varying degrees based on who is doing the observing.
As for the thread topic question: The value depends on how much that person spends on security. A rule of thumb is the cost of a life is exactly equal to how much it costs to end that life, which is typically about half what the subject spends on security.
Well, I don’t eat or wear people because it encourages them to not eat or wear me. Nothing to do with inherent value, everything to do with societal conditioning and self-service.
Yah, I agree. Because humans have the ability to think, rationalise and experience emotion etc doesn’t necessarily make us more valuable. Sure, humans have capabilities that other animals don’t, but at the end of the day, we’re just animals going about our daily business, destroying things, creating things, living as animals do.
I don’t believe we’re spiritually superior or have any special purpose in the world. When it comes down to it, we’re born, we live, eat, sleep, reproduce, die. There’s things that come in between, and there’s things that separate us from other animals, but I still don’t agree that our lives are more valuable.
In my opinion, we have no right to presume authority over other animals purely because we have the capacity to think and reason. For that reason, combined with others, I’m vegetarian. The reasons I don’t wear clothes made of parched human skin, and eat human fillets are the same as the reasons why I don’t eat meat and animal products, and wear leather etc.
—Because humans have the ability to think, rationalise and experience emotion etc doesn’t necessarily make us more valuable.—
When a human is killed, I think that’s generally a much bigger tragedy than when an animal is killed. Animals certainly don’t like death and don’t deserve to be killed for trivial reasons: but human beings are capable of much more deepset psychological attachments and, most importantly, expectations, that are frustrated and broken with their untimely death.
—In my opinion, we have no right to presume authority over other animals purely because we have the capacity to think and reason.—
Why not? The same rationale applies to adults having more rights and responsibilities than children.
It’s late, I’m about to go to bed, and I’ll respond to all or most of these responses in another post.
All I feel like responding to now, is the amazement that some of you are taking the title of this thread literally. When I asked what the value of human life is, I didn’t mean in dollars. I meant in comparison to non human animals.
Not believing in a deity does not neccesarily mean that you believe that it’s better for a person to die than an ant. Humans can reason, and make moral decisions. Animals can’t. Therefore, humans are ‘worth more’ than animals. If you seriously hold that animals and humans should be treated the same morally, then you should be proposing murder trials for any animal that eats another animal.
N/A, since the first condition doesn’t hold.
Oh, and four related questions for you:
If you don’t believe that humans have any sort of spiritual superiority over the other forms of life including plants, or some sort of special purpose in this world, then are our lives any more valuable than that of plants?
If you’re an atheist, or belong to a religion that doesn’t see humans as being anything special, just another part of nature, then do you see human life as being more valuable than plants? And if so, why?
And if the value of human life is the same as that of cotton, trees, and so on, then, if you eat vegetables, and don’t mind wearing clothing made from plant bodies, then would you have any objections to killing people for food and clothing, other than the “ick” factor?
Oh, and Bloody Pollyanna, if we have no right to presume authority over other animals, then why do you eat anything grown today? Farmers presume a lot of authority over animals - they kill insects, kill larger animals that would disrupt crops, fence animals away from their fields, and use slave animals to help run their farms. Your clothes may not contain animal parts, but authority was definately presumed over animals to grow the materials for them.
I’m with robert on this one: If I was to go around casually killing other humans for food or clothing, it invites other humans to do the same to me. Since beef and cotton are plentiful, there isn’t any need for me for increase the societal chaos level by going around hunting people. In this instance, at least, morality and logic are in lockstep.
Now, if I was on a plane that crashed in the Andes…
Which of course reminds me of the Kids in the Hall skit:
This guy: How much do you think my head would be worth if it were made of veal?
That guy: Oh, I don’t know, maybe 3 bucks?
This guy: Hmmm. I don’t think I’m selling.
Back to the OP…Do any animals, other then humans, mourn the loss of their pack-mates? I am going to take a stab and say that dogs/wolfs/etc do, but that is based on hearsay. Do any animals (other then humans) actually mourn?
Pets miss their owners when they’re gone. Also, are we morally superior to plants? Why are we better than animals but not plants? Is it because plants are not cuddly?
I pretty much agree with everything you said. Although, for your last statement, I don’t believe human life can be measured in dollars, although some people do it anyway.
Heheh, yeay, my life is pretty valuable to me too. Although as to what you first said, I didn’t mean monitary wise. But that’s my fault though, I guess I phrased the title of this thread wrong.
Once again, my apologies for the misleading title of the thread, since I wasn’t talking monitary wise. But, in reply to your post, what do you mean by how much someone spends on security? Do you mean things like locks and alarms and so on? Or am I taking you a bit to literally? And what do you mean that the cost of life is equal to the cost it takes to end that life? If I bought a, oh, I’ll just pick a number out of the air…a $50 knife, and stabbed someone to death with it, their life would only have been worth $50?
I myself do believe that humans have spiritual superiority and a purpose in life, unlike the other animals. But, even if I was an atheist, I still would agree that things like murder is wrong, because laws against murder, steeling, and so on, help keep stability and order in this, or any other society.
Ok, just out of curiosity then, since animals eat other animals, why is it wrong for us to kill, say, a chicken, but it’s ok for a lion to kill a zebra? Or what I mean is, do you believe it’s wrong for any animal to kill any other animal, or are you holding up humans to a higher standard even though you’re saying that we’re just another species of animal no better or worse than the rest?
Oh, my apologies if this sounds hostile, I’m really not trying to be.
Good points, although in personal belief, I’d say that the rights of humans over animals is far greater than that of adults over children. Although there are those who think that children should have the same rights as adults, but that’s for another topic.
I do believe in a spiritual superiority over the other animals, and that we do have purpose and meaning that the other animals don’t.
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Once again, I see us as having far more value than plants and animals.
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And, for the third time, I do see us as being superior. Even if I was an atheist, I would still believe that we are higher than the animals because of our ability to reason, rationalize, and use logic. And yes, I do see killing people for food and clothing as wrong, both morally, and, as I stated in an earlier post, because we need murder laws to maintain stability and order.
