So your solution is to ignore post 152 and stick with old beliefs?
You certainly have a lot of very good company.
Are you saying that we should consider your evidence as if we lived in a world where 1 plus 1 doesn’t equal 2?
Well, that’s totally different, dude!
The funny thing is that this will all be seen as painfully obvious in the not too distant future. According to the Bible and the ancient Sumerians the language of all the earth changed and the new languages were confused. Men no longer “worshipped” reality. Of course we all know now days that the ancient people were once savage and then they became sun addled to write the Bible and we’re all better now. We can see proof of these ideas everywhere we look.
Everyone knows that entire paradigms can’t be rewritten because all knowledge is writ in stone. Once something becomes established as fact it is forever the Truth. Men evolved from savage to sun addled to all wise and powerful and this can never change.
Of course if ancient people thought this way we’d still be living in caves. Raw meat was good enough for gramma and it’s good enough for me.
In a sense, yes.
I think people need to suspend their disbelief to see past what they already know. Of course someone with sufficient expertise might not need to do this but most laymen are going to have a hard time differentiating the message from the medium.
If two people get on an elevator three can get off if one had a baby. In the real world outside of language and math and science there are no identical things and just as you can’t add apples and oranges you can’t add two of anything.
Be this as it may the fact is the evidence weighs against ramps (post #152). The pyramids apparently exist and were not built with ramps. Are we going to say it mustta been aliens then? Everything I’m posting is factual and true (except the contingent conclusions) and, I believe, these facts all point at a single thing; that water was used to lift stones. I didn’t leave all this evidence and I’m not responsible for the simple fact the first great pyramid is a stepped pyramid and each subsequent pyramid is apparentrly stepped as well. I didn’t make the gravimetric scan of G1. This stuff is all evidence whether someone believes it’s relevant or not. “Tefnut (gravity) makes the earth high under the sky by means of her arms” really is written in stone. You can’t make this stuff up.
You can make up things like math and science based on axioms and experiment. Man did and by doing so has discovered his past even though it’s yet to be proven. By our standards it’s an hypothesis regardless of how many facts are explained and how many accurate predictions it makes.
Zing! I see what you did there! The pyramids! Writ in stone! Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk!
When viewed fromn the proper angle or when looking at their shadows the pyramids say the word “water” in ancient Egyptian “^^^^”
When viewed from a proper angle,the shadows cast by this bridge look like dongs. So what?
See pareidolia.
Wrong again as usual. Please link to the group of researchers that are claiming that it was debunked, as usual you are just stuck in the past with the proposed single big ramps, as for your post #152, virtually all the points are straw men, there was no evidence pointed at that supported what you claimed.
This is indeed setting a false dilemma, and as the other straw men, it is not what the modern researchers are talking about, the evidence points to ramps in many other pyramids in the past, but as the Egyptians did it better they learned to do it with less imposing ramps and with less material, they found as Buckminster Fuller referred to as doing more with less.
The water idea actually increases the complexity of the task.
What you are doing so far is to use similar arguments as the ancient alien astronaut proponents, setting up straw men and ignoring what the experts are actually doing and finding.
And you are still wrong, as the ramps (not of the single and big kind) are not debunked where it counts, among the experts and academia.
Really, You need to check the documentary to learn not only what the ancient astronauts proposed, that is bananas, but more importantly in your case you need to learn to not use the same methods of setting up straw men or pushing erroneous information.
Well, yes it does, but this changes nothing. The fact remains that pulling stones straight up the side is not only far simpler and far mor primitive than ramps but it is also far more evidenced. I can point to several “ramps” at great pyramid siutes that point right square at the base of the pyramid. The only reason they’d want stones at the base of the pyramid is if they had some means on the pyramid to lift them straight up. I can show steps on several of the great pyramids including G1 and nobody can show any evidence any great pyramid is not stepped on the inside. I can show where they excavated earth from around G2 before construction began which would be simple insanity if they then filled the excavation with ramping material. To believe they’d do so goes beyond believing they were stinky footed bumpkins to believing they were stinky footed lunatics. I can show they built the water collection devices surrounding the great pyramids BEFORE construction began which is wholly inconsistent with the use of ramps and implies they used a simpler method. I can show this simpler method is far more logical and far more efficient than using ramps.
The concept that they could only have used ramps has simply fallen flat. It ius disproven by the existence of a simpler hypothesis and this hypothesis is actually well evidenced where ramps are debunked.
Yes, certainly when you add in my belief that they used water filled counterweights to provide the force that pulled the stones up the side it is more complicated. It’s stilla remarkably simple system and it is established fact that they understood the principles involved because they had balance scales and a standard weight was actually found in the queen’s southern air shaft (G1). This is evidence! The belief that they mustta used ramps is not evidence.
While the system I propose was very simple initially it grew increasingly complex as they invented new bells and whistles and solved problems like rapid rope wear wirth new inventions. By the time of G1 you could almost say the system was complex though it would look simple enough to most modern people. The highest technology of the times was on the mehet weret;
1059b + 3 (N. 1055 + 48). like the equipment which was made in Mḥt-wr.t (mehet weret)
This equipment included the “eye brow of horus”, the upper eye of horus, the shm-sceptres, renennutet, mks-sceptre, nbht-sceptre (and its pivot), nurse canal, mn-canal, and the ba-sceptre. Each of these were “machines” with either one moving part or no moving parts at all. This is not complex by any standard.
The question isn’t whether or not they were complicated to build. The question is how were they built. If you start by excluding every possible means other than ramps you’ll end up believing they mustta used ramps no matter what evidence exists. I merely started by assuming the people were reasonable and knew what they were talking about. Lo and behold, I found that the literal meaning of all their words fits the physical evidence. They didn’t need the word “ramp” because there were no ramps.
You sound like Edna Mode from the Incredibles with the “no capes” motto. 
Actually I wondered about using also the sides of the pyramids where a counterweight would be, and excavating the areas were the water would be (much later) makes sense because one is making space for the counterweight to go below ground level.
In any case, we already saw that your “debunking” of the spiral ramp was underwhelming and stuck in the 19th century.
“I’ll put this very simply, Egyptologists say that the only method of building that is consistent with the cultural context is ramps but the word “ramp” isn’t even attested from the great pyramid building age.”
This is a strawman but Egyptologists saying they could only have used ramps isn’t at all a circular argument!!! They then support their circular argument with the vacant claim that all other means are excluded by the culture despite the fact that the word “ramp” isn’t even attested!!! You do realize that every part of my “theory” is supported by the cultural context. The builders buried boat operators in the workers cemetery and they drew pictures of boats with the structural on the outside. There is no depiction of a ramp. This is not a strawman this is a statement of the facts. You can not show any of these facts are wrong because they are established fact. I don’t need to restate orthodox beliefs to make them look inanane because they are already inane. I am merely stating the facts in a way that other people can see just how inane ramps really are.
Egyptology has been saying ramps for 150 years. This picture is ingrained in peoples’ minds. We all have the romantic picture of bumpkins made strong by superstition dragging stones up ramps for a dead king who can never die. But when it comes time to show the evidence for ramps there is none. There is no evidence of any sort that any stone was ever lifted on any great pyramid using a ramp. None whatsoever. This is a construct dreamed up by Egyptology. You can call this a strawman but every fact here will still stick.
Credentials are irrelevant. The question is how they built the pyramid and the fact is reality doesn’t bend to fit the beliefs of those with credentials and fancy letters after their names. Opinion is just opinion even when held by an expert.
People need to think for themselves.
I’m still challenging you to cite any fact that you believe isn’t true. I will defend any statement of fact so long as it’s relevant and your argument isn’t semantical. The fact is my “theory” explains almost all the evidence and Egyptological assumptions do not.
Certainly if they excavated below ground level to use counterweights they must have used water.
I doubt they did this because they already had a lot of problem controlling water because it wanted to come up in places they didn’t want it and the deeper you dig the more the problem. These “serpents” (places where CO2 or water arose) sapped the energy from the geyser so it was important to control them. They used a mixture of clay and straw to seal small holes and mud to seal small holes in the man made devices.
Utterance 279.
420a. To say: N., I have trampled the mud of the water-courses. Thot is the protector of N.,
420b. when it is dark, when it is dark.
I believe the existence of the water collection devices and canals around the poyramids are determinative. The fact that they buried men with titles consistent with this simply says they mustta used geysers. They buried canal overseers and everyone else consistent with the gods building the pyramids just exactly like they said.
cladking, have you ever heard of Occam’s Razor?
So… …what in your opinion is the simplest explanation for why they excavated a water collection device around the pyramid before construction began?
What is the simplest explanation for why they built step pyramids and then hid it behind smooth sides?
What is the simplest explanation for the utter lack of evidence for ramps?
The strangest thing is that once people admit they didn’t hafta use ramps my job will be about half done. As soon as people admit that dragging stones up the side is far easier than dragging them up ramps it’s the first step of a herculean task.
So why do people resist this so hard? Why doesn’t the evidence sway people to say it appears the stones were pulled straight up the side one step at a time? How can people see the vertical lines and not be convinced modern beliefs are wrong?
Utter lack of evidence for your fantasy.
[QUOTE=cladking]
So… …what in your opinion is the simplest explanation for why they excavated a water collection device around the pyramid before construction began?
[/QUOTE]
That they were building the pyramids in a desert and that humans need water? That seems the simplest explanation to me.
Building a step pyramid is easier than building a smooth sided pyramid since all it is is a bunch of mastabas (which they already knew how to build) and stacking them on top of each other. Smoothing the sides was the next step, so to speak. Seems the simplest answer to me.
That you ignore evidence? That the ramps are IN the pyramid and you hand wave this away? That we are talking about thousands of years and multiple successor kingdoms, conquering empires and modern states have transpired and most of the evidence for a lot of how things were done has vanished or is obscured by later generations? Take your pick…I think Occam would be good with any of these.
Because thousands of workers needed water to drink. Water may have been used as a lubricant also, and a coolant if they were pulling stones up with ropes over the top of the pyramid.
I don’t know the construction details here but the simplest explanation is that stepped pyramids would leave the angled stones for last.
As I already stated I don’t think they used large ramps. Ramps are not the simplest way to raise large blocks of stone.
Because workers get thirsty?
Because pouring water onto the sand helped them move the sleds?