How were the pyramids in Egypt built?

I’m sorry, Google isn’t working for me right now. But what I have are some highly artistic - I’d call it an almost impressionistic, but I’m no great art historian - few takes on ramps being used in the construction of a great pyramid. In conjunction with what look like rollers. You can consider ramps un-debunked.

Again, as per your own words and evidence, Geysers are not constant, they can not be counted on lasting long, and that goes for natural ones. To get water as high as the top levels of the great pyramid there is really no other choice than ho have the ancient Egyptians drill hundreds of feet into the ground. And there is no evidence that they used drills for wells or had the technology for that.

Then you have to have not only water deep underground, but also the right kind of rocks or stones to make the carbonation reaction work to get a cold geyser to work.

As mentioned before Occam’s will cut his throat with his razor before he can tell you that all that is the most likely explanation.

And you have not simulated (with computer software that is not so hard to get or to find people with the experience to do so) the most plausible physics and materials needed that were most likely involved to channel all that water.

And then the almost as tall pyramid of Khafra does not have the same chambers as the great pyramid, and as the closest images available to your theory show, those chambers are important to make the water geyser work. Hence the point that either the Egyptians forgot how to do a great pyramid in less than a generation or the natural forces forgot too.

As for doubling down on your claim that those are parallel lines in the gravimetric image, you are indeed ignoring that we are talking about gravimetric experts, while some plots or graphs are not quite clear, they had access to the data and enough understanding to tell Houdin that the structure was a spiral, but not as it is usually pictured, the spiral they got from the data was in straight lines slopping up and cornering, this is demonstrated on the second drawing presented to Houdin, that the other gravimetric expert made based on the data, it is not a parallel to the ground internal structure indeed, but a spiral structure going up.

Again, even your own words betray you, as you reported but you did not realized then that it was a perfect example against you, it was experts in medicine (and biology later) that told the doctors and the public to wash their hands.

Correction, that was not “ho” but to.

And again: No chickens crossed the roads and low ramps when the pyramid was made because they were not in Egypt then. :slight_smile:

This thread has been immensely valuable to me in learning to understand why people can’t see this. Most people consult experts not for information but to their interpretation of the information. They can’t even see a picture until an expert tells them what is in it. Don’t get me wrong, I couldn’t see it either until I had a visceral understanding of it and most of this understanding came from solving the evidence and the PT. People see reality through their beliefs whether these beliefs are interpolated experiment (scientific models), magic, or a misinterpretation of ancient science expressed as faith. We can’t help it because this is how we think. It is an artifact of language principally but even the few individuals who can escape this or stand outside our shared reality still take it wiith them. They still see reality with the same thinking even as they attempt to view it from another angle. This is because they had to lkearn language to learn anything and all knowledge is in a language format except muscle memory and visceral knowledge. Even these, of course, are heavily dependent on language.

People can’t accept facts until they are stated by experts in terms of the models that exist. It doesn’t matter if what the expert says is balderdash or not because we still only see what we know and can’t see what we don’t know. We know the pyramid was built with ramps so everything we see will confirm this. We won’t see the rectangular high density area ove the entrance because it doesn’t fit rampsa just as I couldn’t see it until I understood the Egyptians telling me that it is sand (and no doubt a little calcium carbonate).

This is why I linked to the picture instead of the interpretation. I knew people would simply read the interpretation. It’s no matter the interpretation can’t really be correct because they know what to look for. One way or another they’ll see ramps of one configuration or another and no matter how many times or how many ways I explain it can’t be ramps theyt still see them. It’s just like trying to explain to an aeronautical engineer that an airplane can take off from a conveyor belt; once they change their frame of reference or misunderstand the nature of a wheel they become locked in their belief just as we all do. Almost every statement everyone makes about nature is false. Yet we don’t seem to notice.

Somehow I need to put this forward in a logical pattern that doesn’t conflict with preconcieved notions, beliefs, and irrelevant scientific paradigms. From my perspective it seems that establishing the presense of water should be sufficient but this hasn’t worked either.

The reason I present it as I do is that so many things that we believe are shown to be nothing but opinion and derivatives of language rather a reflection of reality. The most incredible concept to me is one I once accepted as well; ancient people were primitive and superstitious. This is engrained in us so deeply that holding it in abeyance even for a moment is impossible. We can only believe this because we are all superstitious yet we thrive and there are 7 billion of us now. But we thrive not because we think so clearly but because the ancients invented agriculture and reality stilloperates through experiment. As long as our beliefs reflect science we are tied to reality but this doesn’t make our undersatandings real. It makes scientific results real. It still allows us to misapply and misunderstand. We still can’t properly communicate or understand results because we have a confused language and see what we expect. What clearer evidence can there be of this than people incapable of seeing steps in the scan?

Everything we know is really just belief.

Guys, at what point do we just give up on this thread? We’ve had 796 posts since cladking bumped this zombie to present his pet theory, and at this point, we’re just throwing sand at a screen. We’re not discussing or debating anything anymore - we’re just trying to get cladking to admit he’s a pseudoscientist, and he’s simply not going to. He’s a True Believer, who apparently spends his days haunting online fora, arguing for his pet theory. Based on his claim that he was a programmer in the '60s, I’m guessing he’s retired, lonely, and his geysers and hieroglyphics give him something to fill his days. Better than vodka, I guess. Let’s leave him to it, eh?

ETA: 801 posts, now.

Relatively few medical advances have been made by doctors. Doctors tend to be too busy with patients to do much else. Advancements tend to come from engineers, patients, biologists and the many allied fields.

I’m interested to see it. :wink:

Wrong again, and you are only betraying yourself, I linked to the video where the gravimetric expert showed Houdin the picture you linked, but what you deftly avoid is the second picture that they also showed to him and all the viewers of the documentary.

So we have here the fact that you do think it was something I read, not so, it is what one of the experts reported what the data showed in a clearer form.

And can you guess what many of them are called?

They are experts. Something that you told us are worst than pseudo scientists, you are not making any sense.

I think it’s possible thatr there really is a better term for me than “scientist”. That was how I started out. But then I turned into a generalist which might be considered an “observational scientist”. Then I discovered the ancient science which was a different type of observational science and I’m morphing into a “metaphysician”. But both this post and your post are irrelevant to how they built pyramids.

Why aren’t people questioning the evidence or logic of either my argument or their own arguments?

I’ve barely scratched the surface of all the evidence I have but as long as the thread is so far off topic there’s little point in evidence and logic. We seem to be bogged down in definitions of words that are irrelevant to the pyramids.

I never said experts are worse than pseudo scientists. I said accepting opinion as gospel is worse.

Well you are no fun. :slight_smile:

I do agree, but one of the reasons I get into this is to learn too, I may get tagged now as a go to guy on Egyptology now, as some think that I’m only involved in climate change. As my background is in social studies and history I’m also fascinated to check what makes pseudo science ideas tick.

Or course I may be now affecting the experimental group in the analysis of where this pseudoscience is coming from, but it is risk I’m willing to take. For a few more rounds, I still have a life too :wink:

I agree that there seems to be a spiral shape in the scan. However this is apparently an optical illusion that fades when extranneous lines are removed and the data is studied more closely. I’ve never ruled out the possibility that Dr Bui is exactly right about his interpretation. I seriously doubt it based both on the evidence and other knowledge. If you look cloisely you’ll see that the number of lines suggesting a CCW spiral barely outnumber the libnes suggesting a CW spiral. However the lines suggesting a step pyramid are far more numerous and there are far fewer lines to contradict it.

What’s needed of course is something Egyptology would never do; more science. This scan was effectively the last real science done in this region. It should be repeated with more sensitive equipment and more transducers.

There is extensive writing in the PT about what they did to make these stable and enduring.

I’d bet you that if we did these exact same things our geysers would be more stable as well. Some might be continuous.

I already did a long explanation of your logic failures with the geysers, but it is telling that you choose to reply only to what the gravimetric **images ** (not just one) showed.

Not so, and it is clear that we have evidence here that you are selectively ignoring the replies that you are demanding as if they did not exist.

And they forgot how to do it when they began to build Khafra’s pyramid.

And that indeed would be an experiment that can be confirmed, so you need to contact experts in the field to help you model how the drilling will be made.
But I’m not holding my breath to see you do that ever.

So you simply choose to ignore or turn a blind eye to the evidence already presented!

It makes perfect sense to you that they could drill a 4" hole in granite but it was impossible to drill a 5" hole in limestone!

It’s not my contention that they mustta drilled wells, it’s my contention the evidence exists they could have drilled holes.

Show me evidence they didn’rt drill holes or they did use ramps. Everything else is semantics and confusiuon. It talking past each other. What evidence and logic denies geysers or supports anything else.

I can LITERALLY make a far stronger argument for aliens than anyone has made for ramps. I seriously doubt Aliens built the pyramids.

As long as someone is still willing to engage him, and he’s willing to engage back (such as he does…though, to give him credit he didn’t just leave a steaming pile and bolt for the door as so many pervasive of woo do the voodoo that they do). The thing is, there is still stuff to learn and 'dopers are giving good and interesting cites. For my part, I studied some Egyptian history in college, and just thinking about what’s being said has dredged up a lot of half forgotten memories, and also several times I’ve gone to Google to check down my own pathways as the discussion has evolved…just to check my own thoughts and also to extrapolate what’s being said or asserted (I can tell you that the back of the envelop math doesn’t work to well for geysers used to fill counterweights to lift millions of 2-6 ton blocks up to hundreds of feet into the air, especially at the rate the blocks were being moved and set ;)).

Your wild misinterpretations of photographs and drawings is not evidence of anything except a vivid imagination.

The sun rises 60 human heartbeats earlier each day in springtime. Egyptologists know that the Egyptian year was 360+5 days. I don’t know how they know it but I’d guerss the calender survived the collapse.

I’m no expert on ancient time keeping but am guessing that it all came from Egypt. I don’t have a stroing opinion because there is so little evidence sand I’ve barely studied what exists. There is a line I still don’t understand in the PT dependent on their idea of time. I’ll solve it eventually.