Yes. You mean you never heard of Egyptway?
'Cause we’ve got much better ways to build really big structures than moving giant rocks all over the place.
We can’t because we don’t, and we could, easily, if we actually wanted too.
CMC fnord!
BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD: Heh-heh-heh . . . heh-heh-heh . . .
Bingo!
The surprising thing isn’t that they used counterweights though, but that they used water as the ballast. Even the Acapana Pyramid has water tanks and weirs at the top. The Great Pyramid had the “Lake of the Jackal”.
Ramps have been debunked as a means to have built the great pyramids.
The evidence of how they were built is right before our eyes but people can’t accept it because they want to believe modern man is the crown of creation and ancient people were primitive and superstitious. Stones were pulled straight up the five step pyramids one step at a time using counterweights as described by Herodotus, Horapollo, and ancient writings. You can still see the vertical lines that mark the path of the stones and the five steps in the gravimetric scan made in 1987;
There are canals leading away from the great pyramids and other evidence for counterweights operating on the pyramid as well as the cliff faces.
The word “ramp” isn’t even attested from the great pyramid building age. All the evidence suggests counterweights were used.
You are going to need to do better than that if you are going to assert that no ramps were used and they used cranes instead. There wouldn’t have been enough wood in all of Egypt to build the things you are describing…they would have needed a lot of them to move the millions of blocks used to construct the pyramids.
According to this NatGeo cite there is evidence of internal ramps still in the pyramid, and a quick Google search seems to indicate that there is plenty of archeological evidence that the Egyptians knew what ramps were and used them.
It’s not definitive, but it’s some evidence anyway. What have you got for a cite backing up your assertion?
There was a recent theory that the upper level blocks were cast from some early form of concrete-has anyone proven this?
Well, why else do you think the Sahara is a desert these days ? It musta been all jungle back then, obviously.
(facetious post, in case this isn’t clear)
So, is this a mummy thread?
People see what we expect to see and are blind to the unexpected. External ramps are debunked and the evidence for internal ramps is very weak. The gravimetric scan can’t be showing ramps because almost every single line is parallel to the base and ramps can’t be parallel to the base by definition.
Even insects build and use ramps. The ancient Egyptians were not so primitive they didn’t understand the concept. We assume ancient people were incapable and none too bright but nothing could be further from the truth. We simply misinterpret the evidence just as we misinterpret the physical evidence.
It’s far too weak to be meaningful. Ramps are debunked even though it is true that internal ramps aren’t as solidly debunked as all others they are debunked as well. All of the evidence and logic shows they pulled stones up five step pyramids one step at a time.
I’ve been working on this for years.
All the basics like a 100,000 ton water collection device that was built before the pyramid are in place. The routes of the stone, order of setting, and means of loading and sending to the top are reasonably well established. It’s all based on the physical evidence and is supported by what is known like water erosion in canals leading away from the pyramid and the configuration of the plateau and surving infrastructure. I can get into all of this if people are interested and if you scan these two posts you’ll see a lot of the rock hard evidence has already been cited as well as an explanation of why it wasn’t seen before. Here is an example;
Look at the picture above and you can see vertical lines on all the pyramids. Look above the west end of the boat museum for example. These were all caused by subtle processes and chiefly because the routes of the stones lifted during finishing operations had to be filled in. These fill stones had to come from a different part of the quarry.
Let me tell you my most recent understanding which I’ve posted nowhere else. One of the sentences that survives from the great pyramid building age is in reference to re and shu is;
1424c. one gives, water; the other gives sand.
I should have figured this one out long ago. Egyptologists believe “re” is a self conscious god of the sun and “shu” is the god of air. Of course they are wrong which is why they can’t see the steps, water collection devices, and other evidence. In reality “re” is the “natural phenomenon of the sun”. It’s what the sun does from a scientific perspective. “Shu” is the “natural phenomenon of inertia”. This has been determined by solving the surviving writing by context. Everytime a word is used it gains definitional and connotative properties until the meaning is clear through these properties.
Re provided water because what made the water come up at Giza was CO2 which they called “I3.t-wt.t” which meant “risings begetter” because it caused bread, cake, ands water at Giza to rise. CO2 was a “solar element” in their classification system. Inertia caused the sand to come up with the water because from their perspective water pushed the sand under the earth to bring it up. Of course people can’t see this without first knowing the nature of shu. You must understand their thinking and be familiar with other things that they said like “the sandbank of horrible face 440 cubits by 440 cubits bring water”. The pyramid is this dimension. There is foreign sand in the walls of the horizontal passage and all around the ground at Djoser’s pyramid. This sand is 1 - 100 microns in size of partially rounded and rounded grains quartz. It is a constituent part of the egyptian red sandstone dissolved by the carboniuc acid in the aquifer. The red binder of this stone, siderite, is also mentioned elsewhere.
I repeat ALL the evidence says they used a far simpler and easier method than ramps. We can’t see it because we made some bad assumptions early on.
This is exactly part of the problem with orthodox theories; a lack of wood.
But a counterweight system needs very very little wood because there’s almost no wear and tear on wood at all and very little wood.
They appear top have used four primary counterweights and innumerable temporary and small systems. There were two primaries on the pyramid and two omn the cliff face. The western cliff face counterweight brought a large percentage of the total weight of the pyramid to the top.
Each system was composed of a large container called a 3nw-boat (henu boat) that hung over the side of the pyramid at the top. This was attached by rope slung all the way across the top and down the side to “ascender” (dndndr-boat). The former was overseen by isis and the latter by her "harmonious sister; nephthys. One went up the other went down.
Boats were loaded with about 20 tons of water or stones and there was almost no wear at all as it hugged the 70 degree side of the step.
There was also some wood used for other infrastructure but it all wore slowly as well. The “min” used huge logs to position the ascender for loading for instance. But much of this equipment would have lasted the life of the project. Ramps would have chewed up vast quantities of of resources including wood and have endangered the entire country. They lacked the resources to use men to build the pyramid which is why they said “natural phenomena” built the pyramid.
The hypothesis has been dealt a series of severe blows.
It can’t be ruled out yet and there are a few stones on the pyramid that look like they might have been poured.
There was significantly more rainfall in the area probably amounting to some 4" annually. This would be enough to support a dry grassland and a few trees in low lying areas.
There was a major river just north of Giza sometimes called the Ur Nile that flowed west to east and might have had some water seasonally at the time of great pyramid building.
It was certainly arid.
I’m not sure a link to a picture of the pyramids counts as a cite for your theories…
The hypothesis (theory) is mine. It makes accurate predictions and it was generated by an understanding of the physical evidence much of which was derived from the actual words of the builders carved in stone. I believe this is all a legitimate rediscovery of ancient language, ancient science, and the means they used to build their pyramids. As such there are no sites and no books I can cite for support. The only thing I have on my side is all of the physical and cultural evidence which I can cite. The picture merely shows the vertical lines which exist and anyone can see.
Here’s another;
These vertical lines are real but the “evidence” for ramps is all imaginary: They must have used ramps and the fact they took them down when they were done is confirmation. The gravimetric scan shows steps, not ramps. They had to build in steps which is the only reason they went to the extra trouble of building them. If you look at other projects of the type you’ll see the same thing; steps. Stones were pulled up steps one at a time.
This theory is making accurate predictions while they’ve been trying to find evidence for othermeans for 150 years. Our assumnptions about ancient people are illogical. Without drugstores and factories superstition would have killed people and another tribe would take over their area. Incredibly this all becomes clearer as you come to understand these people. It was science that invented agriculture and cities and this will come to be seen as obvious. Science creates knowledge and superstition kills. Our science is based on observation > experiment but their science was based on observation > logic. “Logic” was the language which was metaphysical and based on the exact same natural logic that underlies math. “Math” is merely quantified natural logic.
You do see the lines, no?
So you read ancient Egyptian or are you relying on some specific translations?
We spent all this time trying to figure out how they built the damn things, and it didn’t occur to anybody to RTFM? How poetic.
[QUOTE=cladking]
The hypothesis (theory) is mine. It makes accurate predictions and it was generated by an understanding of the physical evidence much of which was derived from the actual words of the builders carved in stone. I believe this is all a legitimate rediscovery of ancient language, ancient science, and the means they used to build their pyramids. As such there are no sites and no books I can cite for support. The only thing I have on my side is all of the physical and cultural evidence which I can cite. The picture merely shows the vertical lines which exist and anyone can see.
[/QUOTE]
Right…it’s YOUR hypothesis, so when you say it’s been debunked you mean it’s been debunked by you and in your own mind. That’s fine, but you should have said that right off the bat…then I wouldn’t have asked you for a cite.
The thing is, there is archeological evidence for the use of ramps by the Egyptians, and most scholars think that they were used in the pyramid constructions as well (there is evidence of ramps on the Giza plateau for instance), though ramps weren’t the only thingy they used. It was most likely a mixture of technologies including ramps, lifts, levers , capstans and cranes that were used, as well as a bunch of other stuff.
Here is a wiki article talking about some of this:
Do people wonder at how the ancient Mesoamericans built pyramids? Some of these were comparable in size to those of Egypt (indeed, Cholula is apparently larger).
This is a question people have gotten hung up on in the past so I’m going to answer it a little differently.
Let’s just say I’ve moved beyond other translators and have discovered the original meaning of some heiroglyphs. For instance no Egyptologist or translator knows what the eye of horus is or why the “D3.t” is feminine and is represented by a star in a circle but I do. The D3.t is the source of water used to build pyramids and the circle is the well through which the water sprayed and it was the eye through which horus the elder saw the first eruption at zep tepi. The star is a bubble in the water which they desired would last forever. All things that are holed are feminine so objects are both masculine and feminine depent on perspective. F46 to F50 glyphs are the links of chain that were of different standard lenghts used to transmit the forces across the pyramid top. I could go on for some time explaining these things and talking about the language.
This being said I don’t believe anyone fully understands the writing or how to translate the ancient writing. Indeed, it appears it’s impossible to translate it directly into modern language and something like a flow chart or logic chart is necessary to get an accurate “translation”. But in essense they just meant pretty much what they said. Everything was meant literally and this could have been figured out almost as soon as modern science caught up with the ancient science. I believe that in practice it was impossible to solve without search engines because excessive time would pass while trying to solve it. A great deal of information is needed at your fingertips. There were countless dead ends.
However I don’t want to leave the wrong impression. While translators can translate most of the words other than scientific words correctly and read the glyphs, I can’t. I don’t know how accurate they are but my work suggests they are very competent at translating individual words even when the words aren’t understood and nothing makes sense. It’s this lack of any sense that drove them to try to understand it in terms of later beliefs. The lack of sense drove me to look for an underlying logic and sense which I did find and believe is real due to the fact that it is internally consistent and consistent with the physical evidence and modern science. Ironically (this won’t mean much nor surprise most people), but the text is also consistent with ancient science. Most importantly this interpretation makes accurate predictions.
I can’t read the glyphs but apparently I can understand the meaning of them after solving them by context. It is supremely difficult for modern people to understand simple concepts like “The earth is high under the sky by means of the arms of tefnut” and the job is made far more difficult by our not understanding that “tefnut” is weight and is expressed through her “arms” (ie- the ropes transmitting force to the stones being lifted). “Osiris tows the earth by means of balance” is the same concept expressed from a different perspective. There were no “gods” and no superstitions. Their language made “beliefs” almost impossible. They didn’t even “believe” what they saw and would say they caught a glimpse of “amun”; reality itself. Amun was “the hidden”.
I’m guessing RTFM is “Read the Manual”.
Yes!!! This is exactly the case. It’s all spelled out quite clearly in the Pyramid Texts once you solve the terms. Egyptologists just leaped to the conclusion the PT is a book of incantation because it looks like books of incantation from a thousand years later (the book of the dead). But it’s not and it obviously isn’t since there are instructions to the reader. It is a book of the rituals that were read aloud to the crowds at the kings ascension ceremonies.
There are several major surprises about the ancient science and how adsvanced it was. There was little technology but extensive knowledge because the tool determines the results and ancient science was very different tool. They could clearly see that it was language that created humanity but they didn’t see that science operated through the logic of ancient language. They said human progress has no feminine progenitor. Thot has no mother. And language was the father.